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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show I'm Martin

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will assure host and we have an

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interesting show for you this for you

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this evening we have Matthew crustle

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he'll be on for the first segment and

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we're actually going to have both guests

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on for a short time together he's gonna

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be talking about his book dark skies in

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the second segment we actually have the

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co-creator of the series that was out in

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1996-97 dark skies it was a lot about

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UFOs and it's actually great we're gonna

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talk about that I've been watching some

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of the series so Bryce Abel will be on

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at that point and he's gonna discuss you

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know more of dark skies but also he's

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going to be on solo the last half hour

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as well and discuss some new things he

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has it's actually breaking news that he

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has he's going to be talking about has

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to do with the Betty and Barney Miller

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Betty and Barney Hill Miller where do I

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come up with that Hill case so that'll

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be interesting and we're gonna be

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talking all about that I want to thank

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everyone that supports a show anyone can

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do that we are on patreon and the link

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is on our website podcast UFO calm while

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you're over there

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we have a really informative blog this

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week by Charles Lear he's doing a great

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job this week is UFOs over Japan and he

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really does some deep research into that

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it's a great blog check it out and you

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know what I sold one of my paintings I

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don't have any I did a really crazy

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abstract this week I sold one of my

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paintings to a listener Thank You Debbie

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last week and anyone can go to martin

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willis art calm and if there's something

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you fancy over there and you'd like to

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buy it and you actually get 50% off if

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you own the check out you enter the code

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UFO that's easy enough to remember and

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you get 50% off which is actually about

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a quarter of my what

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used formerly used to be my gallery

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prices so check it out over there well

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without further ado our first guest

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Matthew Kressel he is a podcaster he's

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actually done some podcasting on Doctor

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Who he's written for publications

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including Warped factor Valley Planet

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and futurism formerly of the Omni reboot

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reboot as I mentioned he's covered the

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series Doctor Who and much more and

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we're gonna be talking again we're gonna

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be talking about his book welcome to the

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show

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Matthew thank you very much for having

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me

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yes so are you actually a listener of

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this show which is great thank you and

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now it's funny I just discovered that I

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was reading through your listen to the

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show how long have you listened not very

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long I was sort of in the period just

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before the book came out and I realized

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you know it'd be a good idea to go out

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and talk about the book so I started I I

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have to confess I put UFO podcast into

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Google and yours was one of the first

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ones that popped up a couple of episodes

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that is I gotta get in touch with this

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guy when I was when I've done some

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website work in the past and was

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creating domains and websites and things

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like that I do all my own web web work

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and one of the rules of thumb is you

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know put your domain as close to what

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you want to do as possible and UFO

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podcast was not available so I said hey

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podcast UFO is available okay yeah

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actually yeah our art site this website

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gets hammered we get a lot especially

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the last several months I forget how

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many but it's a lot a lot of people come

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to the site every day every day

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thousands and thousands of people a day

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so it's really it's really it's been

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been good when it's not hacked that's it

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was hacked a while ago and with some

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issues but anyway yeah my thanks for

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checking out the show and and thanks for

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being on so what is

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your interest what's your background

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let's talk a little bit about that and

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your you must have a fascination with

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UFOs in general I was yeah I was born

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and raised in Huntsville Alabama which

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for those who don't know is the home of

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the NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center

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and the US Space and Rocket Center it

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was here that the Saturn 5 Rockets used

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for the Apollo program were built and we

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have were the only place in the world in

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fact that has to Saturn 5 rockets in

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place

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one was replica that was built for the

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30th anniversary of the Apollo 11

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landing in 1999 and so I've been

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fascinated with all things space from

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when I was a young kid my parents worked

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on the rest of Arsenal which is the u.s.

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army base which is connected to the

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Marshall Space Flight Center so I got to

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go out there a lot I got to see there's

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a lot of artifacts from the Space Age

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there so I was I was fascinated with

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space from a young kid and I suppose in

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a roundabout sort of way that being

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interested in space and space

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exploration them obviously the question

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of is there somebody out there is gonna

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come up and you know as a kid I was just

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as happy to watch you know NASA

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documentaries that my parents would

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check out of the library as I was to

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watch things like sightings that used to

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be on Fox that great sort of magazine

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format show that covered all sorts of

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aspects of the paranormal but especially

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UFOs so it was something that's

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interested me from a young age and it

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just you know interested obviously in

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science fiction because I write about

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Doctor Who and I've covered Doctor Who

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in various media over the last decade so

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it was the you getting into ufology

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wasn't that far much farther to go

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especially with an interest in history

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which I have which goes back to the you

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know I wanted to understand the context

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of the Space Age so I became interested

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in history and particularly the history

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of the Cold War and frankly you can't

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separate the history of the Cold War in

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the history of ufology from one another

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they are intertwined so that's that's my

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origin story

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a band as to how I got into this topic

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how about that yes there really is there

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really is connection and of course in

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dark skies that's pretty prominent I

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mean that's that's what runs through it

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and yeah so is that what made you get

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excited about that

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reason and look into writing a book

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about it it didn't the sort of way I

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mean I think I joked to Brice when I

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interviewed him at one point that if

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somebody had done a Venn diagram of all

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my interests and wanted to make a TV

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series based out of all that dark skies

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would be right sit there in the middle

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because it's it's ufology it's American

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history it's conspiracy theories it's

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science fiction it's alternate history

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and it's all in one place but my history

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of the show goes back almost to win it

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first aired there used to be in

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Nashville a theme park called aqua land

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that was attached to the opry mills

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there and we used to go there for

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vacationing you know go up there for

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vacations quite a bit and one by done in

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the theme park sitting in the natural

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hotel room my parents are flipping

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channels and found something

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space-related on TV and they went here

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watch this and it was the third episode

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of dark skies so so I was introduced to

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it from a young age and I was sort of

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dimly aware of it at that point I caught

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two or three more episodes of it when

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the sci-fi channel began to rerunning it

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in the early 2000s and then circa 2013 I

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came across the book price co-authored

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ad after disclosure with Richard Dolan

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where a dark skies has mentioned here

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and there and I went I've got to check

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this series out and by the time I had

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finished watching the sea areas later

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that year I went oh my god this is

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everything I'm interested in in one

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place and I have a quite a bit of

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knowledge about this

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somebody needs to write a book about it

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and I'm not quite sure how I decided

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that that person was me but that's how I

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ended up there and it took three years

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and pitching to three different

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publishers before I found somebody crazy

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enough to let me do it

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Wow that's the yeah I bet it is hard to

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pitch so I'm gonna put this I'm just

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going to show this is it's not a

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question it's a no where to go it's gone

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oh here it is right here so I can put

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just to let people know that whoops I

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can put questions up this screen if

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someone asks a question and so I can

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post your ears is right here

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I'm sure yeah see I can if someone has a

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question for the guest I can do this now

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I love this program it has all these

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little bells and whistles and this is

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one of them so so when you go to pitch

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something like that a lot of people are

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self-publishing did you actually go to

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like publishing companies and is that

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how you did it that was how I did it the

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first place I went to was a company here

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in the States there's a book series

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called outside-in and which is put

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together by a guy named Robert Smith

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who's actually a mathematician at the

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University of Ottawa and he had put

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together the first book in that series

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about classic series Doctor Who that's

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the show as it ran from 63 to 89 so I

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had some experience writing essays and I

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thought well this is obviously the first

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place to go to to want to talk about it

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and I fished to them and they said we're

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interested but we've got a lot on our

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plate we'll get back to you in three

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months and that was the end of 2013 and

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I still haven't heard a word from them

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ever since but to be fair they had a lot

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of other projects on their plate I'm

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sure my email got buried somewhere I

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pitched it to a British publisher who

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specializes in very obscure as the Brits

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like to say cult TV properties and I got

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a response back very quickly that was

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along the lines if we're actually

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closing down but thank you for your

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interest and the third time was as they

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say was the charm it happened kind of

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accidentally because one of my other

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interests is Sherlock Holmes and as it

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happens that Christmas of 20 year was

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that 24 Christmas 2014 I think it was no

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2016 excuse me I got a book called I got

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a book called the counterfeit detective

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that was about Sherlock Holmes and

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Watson going to 1899 New York City where

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somebody is impersonating Holmes and I

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rented a couple of months later

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thoroughly enjoyed it and I reviewed it

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over on work Factor as it happens the

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author of that book is Stewart Douglas

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who runs obverse books and he was

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putting together a range of cult TV

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analysis books that was going to be

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called the silver archive which is spun

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off of the series that they had already

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been doing at that point that was very

271
00:11:25,579 --> 00:11:23,279
successful called the black archive

272
00:11:27,990 --> 00:11:25,589
which is the same sort of thing with

273
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:28,000
Doctor Who sort of critical analysis

274
00:11:32,820 --> 00:11:31,090
and asked me if I wanted to pitch and to

275
00:11:34,260 --> 00:11:32,830
be honest after basically being shot

276
00:11:36,330 --> 00:11:34,270
down the way I was why the second

277
00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:36,340
publisher I was like yeah this is this

278
00:11:40,740 --> 00:11:37,990
books not gonna happen nobody wants to

279
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:40,750
read it and my best friend to her credit

280
00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:42,730
was the one who said no you've got to

281
00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:46,000
pitch this and yeah I mind got

282
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:48,130
commissioned and two nobody's surprised

283
00:11:52,950 --> 00:11:51,610
forth in my own so one it's one of those

284
00:11:54,750 --> 00:11:52,960
things the sort of the weird way that

285
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:54,760
your various interests come together to

286
00:11:58,920 --> 00:11:57,040
make sure something happens yeah yeah

287
00:12:01,560 --> 00:11:58,930
sometimes out something is just plain

288
00:12:03,180 --> 00:12:01,570
meant to be too so how do you how do you

289
00:12:04,650 --> 00:12:03,190
get going on something like this and

290
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:04,660
what did you what did you do where'd you

291
00:12:12,930 --> 00:12:08,170
what did you cover and and how did you

292
00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:12,940
get what you needed to get I sort of had

293
00:12:15,930 --> 00:12:14,650
decided what I'd originally wanted to do

294
00:12:19,320 --> 00:12:15,940
when I pitched the book back at the end

295
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:19,330
of 2013 and again in 2014-2015 timeframe

296
00:12:22,620 --> 00:12:20,530
was I basically was just gonna do a

297
00:12:24,660 --> 00:12:22,630
bog-standard episode guide it was going

298
00:12:26,970 --> 00:12:24,670
to be a case of you know this is this

299
00:12:29,010 --> 00:12:26,980
episode which has this haven't going on

300
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:29,020
in it here's where it ties in with real

301
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:30,910
history here's where it ties in with you

302
00:12:35,550 --> 00:12:33,490
Balaji here's the facts of the fiction

303
00:12:38,460 --> 00:12:35,560
basically and just go through the whole

304
00:12:40,050 --> 00:12:38,470
series like that because of the way the

305
00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:40,060
silver archive was coming together I

306
00:12:43,020 --> 00:12:41,410
couldn't really do that it was more

307
00:12:45,510 --> 00:12:43,030
critical analysis so what I basically

308
00:12:48,030 --> 00:12:45,520
pitched was a series of five different

309
00:12:50,820 --> 00:12:48,040
essays in that would be all contained in

310
00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:50,830
one book so the first essay focuses on

311
00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:52,750
the elements of ufology which are used

312
00:12:56,940 --> 00:12:55,660
in it the second essay focuses on some

313
00:12:58,950 --> 00:12:56,950
very on a couple of very strange

314
00:13:01,440 --> 00:12:58,960
encounters that Bryson Brentt had while

315
00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:01,450
making the show with people who claim to

316
00:13:05,010 --> 00:13:03,310
have inside knowledge but while also

317
00:13:07,770 --> 00:13:05,020
looking at the history of UFO

318
00:13:09,329 --> 00:13:07,780
disinformation in the caught in sort of

319
00:13:10,829 --> 00:13:09,339
in the context of that in trying to

320
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:10,839
figure out what was going on in those

321
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:13,810
encounters there's an essay looking at

322
00:13:19,920 --> 00:13:16,330
how the show ties in with the real

323
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:19,930
history in the 1960s so I do some case

324
00:13:23,310 --> 00:13:21,610
studies based on a couple of episodes of

325
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:23,320
that including one set around both the

326
00:13:28,620 --> 00:13:26,050
civil rights movement and the 1965 New

327
00:13:29,850 --> 00:13:28,630
York blackout the New York blackout

328
00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:29,860
actually as I discovered in my research

329
00:13:33,630 --> 00:13:31,240
actually has this kind of funky

330
00:13:35,610 --> 00:13:33,640
connection to the world of ethology I

331
00:13:37,110 --> 00:13:35,620
also did one sort of looking at the hive

332
00:13:39,300 --> 00:13:37,120
which is the alien creatures from the

333
00:13:41,130 --> 00:13:39,310
series who we tend to think of as the

334
00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:41,140
greys but it turns out that something is

335
00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:41,590
actually

336
00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:43,540
that's the Grace and their technology so

337
00:13:46,740 --> 00:13:44,620
it's looking at it it's kind of a

338
00:13:48,300 --> 00:13:46,750
version of the invasion of the body

339
00:13:50,670 --> 00:13:48,310
snatchers is it were so I look at it

340
00:13:52,290 --> 00:13:50,680
through that kind of context and finally

341
00:13:54,210 --> 00:13:52,300
just wanting to know the question of

342
00:13:57,390 --> 00:13:54,220
where would the show have gone because

343
00:13:59,010 --> 00:13:57,400
it sadly only lasted one season so what

344
00:14:01,410 --> 00:13:59,020
I really wanted to know was where would

345
00:14:03,090 --> 00:14:01,420
the show have gone next so that was what

346
00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:03,100
the book concludes with is here's where

347
00:14:08,550 --> 00:14:05,170
the show might have gone if it had

348
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:08,560
continued in terms of research I mean I

349
00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:09,910
because I had an interest in all these

350
00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:12,910
topics to begin with I was able to kind

351
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:14,650
of just I just basically pulled books

352
00:14:18,510 --> 00:14:16,090
off my shelf and just started reading

353
00:14:19,980 --> 00:14:18,520
again but I also quickly realized that I

354
00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:19,990
didn't have as much knowledge as I

355
00:14:24,690 --> 00:14:22,480
thought so blessed be the Huntsville

356
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:24,700
Madison County Public Library because I

357
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:26,530
had like Bernie that's going to work for

358
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:27,250
me

359
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:28,690
tracking stuff down that was on the

360
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:30,130
shelves and at various branches and

361
00:14:34,470 --> 00:14:32,530
having stuff moved around I was also

362
00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:34,480
lucky enough to get in touch eventually

363
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:36,910
with Bryson Brentt both of the show's

364
00:14:41,310 --> 00:14:39,760
creators about the fact that hey I'm I'm

365
00:14:44,430 --> 00:14:41,320
putting this book together I'd very much

366
00:14:46,410 --> 00:14:44,440
value your input and I was able to have

367
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:46,420
correspondence with both of them and I

368
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:47,770
was able to interview both of them over

369
00:14:52,860 --> 00:14:50,110
Skype so I was able to do about 75

370
00:14:55,260 --> 00:14:52,870
minutes apiece with them and Bryce also

371
00:14:57,210 --> 00:14:55,270
allowed me access to some documentation

372
00:14:59,610 --> 00:14:57,220
that hadn't been seen widely before

373
00:15:02,070 --> 00:14:59,620
stuff that was used in the show pitch

374
00:15:04,830 --> 00:15:02,080
documents timelines where things might

375
00:15:06,930 --> 00:15:04,840
have gone it was a bit like getting the

376
00:15:08,190 --> 00:15:06,940
Holy Grail in some respects for as a fan

377
00:15:10,530 --> 00:15:08,200
of the show who'd always wanted to know

378
00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:10,540
these things and then figuring out how

379
00:15:15,150 --> 00:15:12,340
do i distill this down into you know

380
00:15:18,390 --> 00:15:15,160
thirty thousand words in effect Wow now

381
00:15:22,050 --> 00:15:18,400
the writers that were involved in that

382
00:15:24,750 --> 00:15:22,060
show I've never asked Bryce this was he

383
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:24,760
one of the writers of that show yeah he

384
00:15:28,710 --> 00:15:26,770
was yeah he was one of the co-creators

385
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:28,720
of d'Or he was I know he's the creator

386
00:15:34,350 --> 00:15:32,320
but he was writing the episodes as well

387
00:15:36,420 --> 00:15:34,360
they were writing episodes as well yeah

388
00:15:38,910 --> 00:15:36,430
yeah yeah because there's some pretty

389
00:15:40,290 --> 00:15:38,920
intense stuff going on I've watched some

390
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:40,300
of the series it's really great but

391
00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:43,330
there's there's a lot of there's a lot

392
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:47,230
to these to these shows you know each

393
00:15:53,250 --> 00:15:49,330
each show that I've watched a lot going

394
00:15:55,410 --> 00:15:53,260
on and a lot you almost have to like hey

395
00:15:57,510 --> 00:15:55,420
didn't that really happen or you know

396
00:16:00,390 --> 00:15:57,520
didn't something like that really happen

397
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:00,400
that that type of thing you know so he

398
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:02,890
really yeah which is what made it yeah

399
00:16:06,390 --> 00:16:04,240
go ahead yeah which is what made it

400
00:16:08,010 --> 00:16:06,400
perfect to take apart and to want to

401
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:08,020
examine it because as somebody who knew

402
00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:09,610
quite a bit about American history in

403
00:16:14,550 --> 00:16:11,920
this period anyway it was sitting there

404
00:16:16,530 --> 00:16:14,560
going I recognized that event and I

405
00:16:18,540 --> 00:16:16,540
recognized those elements from ufology

406
00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:18,550
being stuck together and it was kind of

407
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:20,590
the way they're sort of intertwined is

408
00:16:25,500 --> 00:16:23,050
very unique to this show and it was also

409
00:16:27,690 --> 00:16:25,510
wanting to sort of go okay this is okay

410
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:27,700
what's the reality here how much this is

411
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:29,290
actually tie into what was going on and

412
00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:31,600
the answer is quite a bit of it

413
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:35,260
surprisingly enough yeah let's talk

414
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:38,650
about I remember Brice telling me in the

415
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:40,110
past when he was on the show before

416
00:16:46,410 --> 00:16:43,750
about his meeting with an intelligence

417
00:16:49,140 --> 00:16:46,420
officer can you talk about that that's

418
00:16:52,050 --> 00:16:49,150
really fascinating I'd be very happy to

419
00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:52,060
it starts on it starts I believe it's

420
00:16:56,580 --> 00:16:54,610
September 21st 1996 is one the first

421
00:16:58,290 --> 00:16:56,590
episode aired and there was a big party

422
00:17:00,450 --> 00:16:58,300
at Bryce's house in Beverly Hills

423
00:17:01,530 --> 00:17:00,460
and the cast and crew are invited it's

424
00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:01,540
about 200 people

425
00:17:06,210 --> 00:17:03,970
everybody's issued with a fake mj-12

426
00:17:08,490 --> 00:17:06,220
badge which was styled on Bob lazarre's

427
00:17:11,820 --> 00:17:08,500
supposed security clearance badge that

428
00:17:13,410 --> 00:17:11,830
he wore in s4 and there's TV set up all

429
00:17:16,020 --> 00:17:13,420
around Bryce's house where people can

430
00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:16,030
watch the show as it goes out and as

431
00:17:20,910 --> 00:17:17,710
Bryson Brett will tell you at that point

432
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:20,920
they had seen both versions of that

433
00:17:24,510 --> 00:17:22,480
first episode about a hundred times

434
00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:24,520
apiece so they weren't interested in

435
00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:27,310
watching it Brent as he put it was

436
00:17:30,060 --> 00:17:28,750
interested in seeing people's reaction

437
00:17:32,550 --> 00:17:30,070
so what he would do is he would wander

438
00:17:35,790 --> 00:17:32,560
around the house and at one point he

439
00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:35,800
went out on the back porch and this you

440
00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:39,750
know figure comes up young clean-cut

441
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:41,860
walks up to him and strikes up a

442
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:44,410
conversation and says something to him

443
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:47,250
along the lines of we've seen your pilot

444
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:49,450
you we think you've got a lot of things

445
00:17:54,570 --> 00:17:51,280
right we would like to help you out some

446
00:17:57,510 --> 00:17:54,580
more and this is somebody that Bryce and

447
00:17:59,310 --> 00:17:57,520
Brent didn't recognize wasn't wearing

448
00:18:02,460 --> 00:17:59,320
one of the fake game j12 badges they'd

449
00:18:04,260 --> 00:18:02,470
been issued to everybody so Brent asked

450
00:18:06,390 --> 00:18:04,270
him the obvious question which is well

451
00:18:08,010 --> 00:18:06,400
who are you and the guy tells him just

452
00:18:10,350 --> 00:18:08,020
call me JC

453
00:18:12,330 --> 00:18:10,360
he starts giving him details about the

454
00:18:13,860 --> 00:18:12,340
shows that they've shot and stuff that's

455
00:18:16,530 --> 00:18:13,870
in development phase and everything else

456
00:18:19,410 --> 00:18:16,540
somebody has clearly got some kind of

457
00:18:22,770 --> 00:18:19,420
inside information but he also claims to

458
00:18:24,810 --> 00:18:22,780
represent somebody in the know and who

459
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:24,820
would like to help get the truth and

460
00:18:30,270 --> 00:18:27,280
inverted commas into the show as it goes

461
00:18:32,730 --> 00:18:30,280
along and to try and prove his sincerity

462
00:18:34,470 --> 00:18:32,740
and he was real he asked for a napkin he

463
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:34,480
takes a pen out of his pocket and he

464
00:18:37,650 --> 00:18:36,250
writes down this equation thing on the

465
00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:37,660
back of this napkin and hands it over to

466
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:40,570
Brent and Brent acid will what is this

467
00:18:47,060 --> 00:18:43,360
and the guy replies the secrets of the

468
00:18:49,290 --> 00:18:47,070
universe sound light frequency and

469
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:49,300
obviously there's a party going on Brian

470
00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:50,410
and Brent are interested but there's a

471
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:52,870
lot going on so the guy says I'll be in

472
00:18:58,500 --> 00:18:54,610
touch and just kind of wanders back off

473
00:19:00,480 --> 00:18:58,510
into the night and disappears and later

474
00:19:02,430 --> 00:19:00,490
the following week after some phone

475
00:19:04,050 --> 00:19:02,440
calls between JC and Brent there's a

476
00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:04,060
two-hour meeting that set up at the dark

477
00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:06,940
skies production office and JC shows up

478
00:19:11,190 --> 00:19:08,820
with this slightly older guy who

479
00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:11,200
apparently isn't known only as the major

480
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:14,920
and they spend about an hour and a half

481
00:19:19,470 --> 00:19:16,770
to two hours spinning out this and

482
00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:19,480
labyrinth story about human

483
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:22,150
interventions in Alien history and all

484
00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:25,450
kinds of other stuff and as Bryce will

485
00:19:28,470 --> 00:19:26,950
this Bryce has put it in various

486
00:19:30,390 --> 00:19:28,480
interviews including both with myself

487
00:19:32,790 --> 00:19:30,400
and Robbie Graham of silver screen

488
00:19:35,970 --> 00:19:32,800
saucers you know the older guy was kind

489
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:35,980
of dismissive kind of a smartass was

490
00:19:39,660 --> 00:19:37,450
kind of I can't believe we have to deal

491
00:19:42,180 --> 00:19:39,670
with you guys and at one point he took a

492
00:19:43,710 --> 00:19:42,190
vial out of his pocket full of what

493
00:19:45,030 --> 00:19:43,720
looked like gold or fool's gold and just

494
00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:45,040
kind of put it down on the table and

495
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:47,080
went this is you don't have this in your

496
00:19:50,820 --> 00:19:49,150
shadow this is what the show is this is

497
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:50,830
what everything is all about you have to

498
00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:53,770
put it in the show and obviously Bryson

499
00:19:57,060 --> 00:19:55,180
Brentt asked the obvious question well

500
00:19:58,650 --> 00:19:57,070
what is this and the guy tells them this

501
00:20:00,900 --> 00:19:58,660
is what it's all about this is what the

502
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:00,910
aliens are here for and the major

503
00:20:03,780 --> 00:20:02,410
claimed that the stuff had been when

504
00:20:06,150 --> 00:20:03,790
they were mining the stuff on the moon

505
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:06,160
the aliens were but they had about lined

506
00:20:10,550 --> 00:20:07,510
it out and it could be found here on

507
00:20:12,750 --> 00:20:10,560
earth so the aliens were coming here and

508
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:12,760
you know I think it was getting through

509
00:20:15,570 --> 00:20:13,840
but they were also kind of still

510
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:15,580
skeptical about it and you know the

511
00:20:19,050 --> 00:20:17,050
major in JC must have realized this

512
00:20:21,390 --> 00:20:19,060
because they then made an offer and said

513
00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:21,400
okay we can read you into things a bit

514
00:20:24,599 --> 00:20:22,809
further

515
00:20:27,239 --> 00:20:24,609
there's an admiral on a ship in Long

516
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:27,249
Beach you can meet with him but you

517
00:20:31,649 --> 00:20:28,330
can't meet him on the ship that would

518
00:20:35,219 --> 00:20:31,659
break security okay well where do where

519
00:20:37,229 --> 00:20:35,229
can we meet him and I kid you not the

520
00:20:39,599 --> 00:20:37,239
response back to Bryce apparently was

521
00:20:43,049 --> 00:20:39,609
you can meet him at a cemetery at Long

522
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:43,059
Beach at midnight I think I remember

523
00:20:47,159 --> 00:20:45,369
that yeah and as Bryce foot it that's

524
00:20:49,710 --> 00:20:47,169
the point where he pushed away from the

525
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:49,720
table and when I have a show to run I

526
00:20:53,909 --> 00:20:52,090
have a wife I have three kids I'm not

527
00:20:58,139 --> 00:20:53,919
meeting you or anybody else in the

528
00:21:00,119 --> 00:20:58,149
cemetery at midnight have a good day and

529
00:21:02,639 --> 00:21:00,129
that was kind of the end of that story

530
00:21:05,460 --> 00:21:02,649
and the two guys just kind of left the

531
00:21:07,649 --> 00:21:05,470
office and that was about the end of the

532
00:21:09,899 --> 00:21:07,659
story there's potentially a slight coda

533
00:21:11,729 --> 00:21:09,909
to it which Bryson Brentt I think debate

534
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:11,739
about how much authenticity there was do

535
00:21:19,159 --> 00:21:14,049
it a couple of weeks later there was a

536
00:21:22,859 --> 00:21:21,359
apparently had washed up on shore with a

537
00:21:25,409 --> 00:21:22,869
gunshot wound in his head and the police

538
00:21:27,599 --> 00:21:25,419
were trying to identify him and Brent

539
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:27,609
believes that the young man who turned

540
00:21:32,759 --> 00:21:29,769
up may have been JC but he doesn't know

541
00:21:34,499 --> 00:21:32,769
that for sure it could have just been a

542
00:21:35,999 --> 00:21:34,509
coincidence I know that's Bryce's

543
00:21:38,249 --> 00:21:36,009
position on it it was probably just a

544
00:21:40,979 --> 00:21:38,259
coincidence but it's a very strange

545
00:21:46,139 --> 00:21:40,989
story to say the very least

546
00:21:49,739 --> 00:21:46,149
Wow yeah yeah you know I wonder you know

547
00:21:52,830 --> 00:21:49,749
it makes you wonder who that really was

548
00:21:54,299 --> 00:21:52,840
and and what their you know what were

549
00:21:56,419 --> 00:21:54,309
they trying to get out of it you know I

550
00:22:01,109 --> 00:21:56,429
mean would they trim you know I mean

551
00:22:02,879 --> 00:22:01,119
where was it supposed to go yeah that's

552
00:22:04,979 --> 00:22:02,889
that that's the big question

553
00:22:06,389 --> 00:22:04,989
and one of the things I did in the book

554
00:22:09,089 --> 00:22:06,399
was I looked at it in kind of the wider

555
00:22:10,710 --> 00:22:09,099
context of UFO disinformation because

556
00:22:12,180 --> 00:22:10,720
there's two sort of big stories to keep

557
00:22:15,419 --> 00:22:12,190
in mind one of which does involve

558
00:22:17,339 --> 00:22:15,429
another group of filmmakers a guy named

559
00:22:20,669 --> 00:22:17,349
Robert emmenecker who did a documentary

560
00:22:22,589 --> 00:22:20,679
in the mid-70s called UFO past present

561
00:22:24,210 --> 00:22:22,599
future and part of the reason he made

562
00:22:26,969 --> 00:22:24,220
that documentary was because the Air

563
00:22:28,979 --> 00:22:26,979
Force at one point promised him footage

564
00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:28,989
of a UFO landing at Holloman Air Force

565
00:22:34,769 --> 00:22:33,460
Base hmm right and he was promised this

566
00:22:35,670 --> 00:22:34,779
footage they did the rest of the

567
00:22:38,790 --> 00:22:35,680
documentary

568
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:38,800
and at the last minute the air force as

569
00:22:42,450 --> 00:22:40,570
Emma Dekker tells a story pulled out

570
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:42,460
their cooperation with the footage and

571
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:45,520
that was about 1974 I think I think of

572
00:22:49,530 --> 00:22:47,170
Linda Moulton Howe had something to do

573
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:49,540
with that - I don't know if that name

574
00:22:52,980 --> 00:22:50,050
came up

575
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:52,990
but yeah her name comes up in connection

576
00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:55,090
to Paul bennewitz and what the strange

577
00:22:59,280 --> 00:22:56,770
events that happened around Kirtland Air

578
00:23:02,970 --> 00:22:59,290
Force Base in Albuquerque New Mexico

579
00:23:04,770 --> 00:23:02,980
in the late 70s early 80s which is also

580
00:23:06,930 --> 00:23:04,780
which is really lays the seeds of a lot

581
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:06,940
of modern ufology because there was a

582
00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:09,550
massive disinformation operation that

583
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:11,950
was aimed specifically at the UFO

584
00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:14,770
community was aimed at a young guy and a

585
00:23:18,810 --> 00:23:16,690
guy named Paul bennewitz who was a world

586
00:23:21,450 --> 00:23:18,820
war two veteran electronics genius by

587
00:23:23,460 --> 00:23:21,460
all accounts a contractor who worked for

588
00:23:25,710 --> 00:23:23,470
the Air Force NASA who had an interest

589
00:23:28,770 --> 00:23:25,720
in UFOs and thought aliens were landing

590
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:28,780
at Kirtland right uh was apparently done

591
00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:30,640
mainly by a guy whose name is still

592
00:23:37,410 --> 00:23:32,230
infamous in the UFO community named

593
00:23:41,100 --> 00:23:37,420
Richard Doty yes yeah yeah yeah actually

594
00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:41,110
you know I was I had a Richard Doty

595
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:43,720
scheduled for this show at one point and

596
00:23:49,980 --> 00:23:47,530
I just I just didn't I didn't follow

597
00:23:52,230 --> 00:23:49,990
through with it I've decided not to and

598
00:23:56,780 --> 00:23:52,240
and because I have mixed feelings about

599
00:24:00,120 --> 00:23:56,790
that whole situation yeah no I I think

600
00:24:04,140 --> 00:24:00,130
who well I got to just watch what I say

601
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:04,150
but it's uh I didn't want anything to be

602
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:06,730
glorified because I think Paul bennewitz

603
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:10,090
was really very abused you know I

604
00:24:15,330 --> 00:24:12,910
believe yeah I would agree with that

605
00:24:17,910 --> 00:24:15,340
assessment he he was used and abused by

606
00:24:19,980 --> 00:24:17,920
by a government that he chose to trust

607
00:24:22,290 --> 00:24:19,990
and which informed him that there was

608
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:22,300
not only aliens but malevolent aliens

609
00:24:29,490 --> 00:24:25,930
and it's through bennewitz it's through

610
00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:29,500
bill Moore and through well now that a

611
00:24:34,980 --> 00:24:31,510
lot of the bases of things like the

612
00:24:36,660 --> 00:24:34,990
Dulce base and you know alien you know

613
00:24:38,970 --> 00:24:36,670
the alien abductions for genetic

614
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:38,980
information and the cattle mutilations

615
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:41,200
being related to that all come out of

616
00:24:45,780 --> 00:24:42,910
this whole peculiar situation that

617
00:24:48,820 --> 00:24:45,790
happens in New Mexico in the late 70s

618
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:48,830
early 80s yes yeah

619
00:24:56,170 --> 00:24:52,370
yeah that and by the way the Dulce base

620
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:56,180
you're right and actually did come out

621
00:25:01,060 --> 00:24:58,490
of all of this that came out of trying

622
00:25:01,750 --> 00:25:01,070
to stare Paul bennewitz in a wrong

623
00:25:03,940 --> 00:25:01,760
direction

624
00:25:06,550 --> 00:25:03,950
so there's a lot of people that are just

625
00:25:07,870 --> 00:25:06,560
totally convinced that there are you

626
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:07,880
know underground there's an underground

627
00:25:13,290 --> 00:25:10,730
base there and you know there is it is a

628
00:25:15,370 --> 00:25:13,300
strange area I will I will admit that

629
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:15,380
there's a lot of weird things that go on

630
00:25:20,620 --> 00:25:17,840
there and but as far as an underground

631
00:25:22,270 --> 00:25:20,630
base and aliens underneath and some you

632
00:25:23,710 --> 00:25:22,280
know jars or whatever it was in that

633
00:25:25,420 --> 00:25:23,720
battle there's supposed to be some

634
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:25,430
battle underground - or something

635
00:25:29,620 --> 00:25:27,050
yeah the suppose this is suppose that

636
00:25:31,150 --> 00:25:29,630
1979 battle I think it is between Delta

637
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:31,160
Force and a group of aliens at Dulce

638
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:34,970
base that's right yeah we don't think

639
00:25:39,910 --> 00:25:38,330
that happened yeah I am not convinced of

640
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:39,920
it whatsoever on the basis of the

641
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,330
evidence and in the basis of my own

642
00:25:45,610 --> 00:25:43,760
research and for anybody who thinks it

643
00:25:47,590 --> 00:25:45,620
Israel I highly recommend Greg bishops

644
00:25:49,690 --> 00:25:47,600
book project beta which goes a great

645
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:49,700
depth about the benifits affair and

646
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:52,130
which was you know it and also the mark

647
00:25:54,970 --> 00:25:53,450
Pilkington's book Mirage man which

648
00:25:56,590 --> 00:25:54,980
there's a very good documentary based on

649
00:25:58,300 --> 00:25:56,600
it as well that I recommend that people

650
00:26:00,700 --> 00:25:58,310
check out that's I think currently free

651
00:26:03,670 --> 00:26:00,710
if you're an Amazon Prime member yes and

652
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:03,680
also just up while we're on the topic my

653
00:26:08,980 --> 00:26:06,650
friend Chris Lambright did x/2 sending

654
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:08,990
and that's also a half of that book is

655
00:26:12,340 --> 00:26:10,970
dedicated to the Paul bennewitz case so

656
00:26:17,380 --> 00:26:12,350
that's that's really good reading as

657
00:26:19,510 --> 00:26:17,390
well check it out yeah yeah yeah so I

658
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:19,520
didn't realize that you actually you've

659
00:26:24,430 --> 00:26:21,650
actually looked into a lot of cases not

660
00:26:27,430 --> 00:26:24,440
just what dark skies was involved in

661
00:26:29,140 --> 00:26:27,440
they didn't have anything to do with the

662
00:26:33,250 --> 00:26:29,150
bennewitz case so looks like you've

663
00:26:35,050 --> 00:26:33,260
looked at the topic a bit no I'm you

664
00:26:37,690 --> 00:26:35,060
know I felt like if I was gonna write

665
00:26:39,850 --> 00:26:37,700
about the topic and at one point before

666
00:26:41,530 --> 00:26:39,860
the publisher put me off the notion I

667
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:41,540
sincerely believed that my audience

668
00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:44,210
would be seven people who were all hippy

669
00:26:48,490 --> 00:26:46,370
UFO you know people who knew the UFO

670
00:26:50,140 --> 00:26:48,500
field and watch dark skies so I was

671
00:26:52,510 --> 00:26:50,150
determined if I was going to do the book

672
00:26:54,940 --> 00:26:52,520
I was going to do it right so I made

673
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:54,950
sure to and to make sure to read up as

674
00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:57,170
much as I could but also to look into

675
00:27:01,260 --> 00:26:59,290
things as much as I could

676
00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:01,270
yeah hopefully come to some reasonable

677
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:02,950
conclusions because that whole story

678
00:27:07,650 --> 00:27:05,530
about what happened to Bryson Brentt is

679
00:27:10,020 --> 00:27:07,660
also maybe even more interesting because

680
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:10,030
at the same time roughly that's going on

681
00:27:14,850 --> 00:27:12,250
Richard Doty was working as a consultant

682
00:27:17,610 --> 00:27:14,860
on the x-files which was airing on Fox

683
00:27:21,030 --> 00:27:17,620
so there seems to be a possible

684
00:27:23,340 --> 00:27:21,040
suggestion that somebody somewhere don't

685
00:27:25,530 --> 00:27:23,350
ask me who was trying to steer the

686
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:25,540
direction of the only two major shows on

687
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:27,850
American television dealing with the UFO

688
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:31,360
topic at that time right I know the

689
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:35,530
x-files came out I think in 93 I agree

690
00:27:40,230 --> 00:27:38,650
yeah and yeah and you know they could

691
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:40,240
they're kind of is kind of the same

692
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:42,490
there's some similarities between the

693
00:27:47,550 --> 00:27:44,890
show some slight nuances that are

694
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,560
similar between between the you know the

695
00:27:52,380 --> 00:27:49,840
two shows in a way because they mix in a

696
00:27:54,630 --> 00:27:52,390
little bit of a little bit of things

697
00:27:58,230 --> 00:27:54,640
that are out really happening in with a

698
00:28:01,470 --> 00:27:58,240
lot of fiction and and it's great yeah

699
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:01,480
well done yeah yeah well they're drawing

700
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:02,770
from the same well so there's going to

701
00:28:07,050 --> 00:28:04,690
be some similarities but sure you know

702
00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:07,060
in you know it was I think it was a it

703
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:09,130
was all too easy for critics and even

704
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:11,530
some viewers at the time in 96 97 as

705
00:28:15,780 --> 00:28:13,930
dark skies was going out to go ads just

706
00:28:17,580 --> 00:28:15,790
that it's just an x-files ripoff or

707
00:28:19,410 --> 00:28:17,590
whatever and the truth of the matter is

708
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:19,420
and I I can say this having dedicated

709
00:28:23,670 --> 00:28:22,210
1,500 words or so to the topic in the

710
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:23,680
book there are two completely different

711
00:28:28,530 --> 00:28:26,080
shows they kind of do it from very

712
00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:28,540
different angles and somebody else

713
00:28:32,190 --> 00:28:30,550
online put it I think of the I think

714
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:32,200
it's the topless robot site when the DVD

715
00:28:36,990 --> 00:28:34,810
came out in 2011 did a wonderful article

716
00:28:38,850 --> 00:28:37,000
about why dark skies was better than the

717
00:28:40,530 --> 00:28:38,860
x-files and the fundamental difference

718
00:28:42,690 --> 00:28:40,540
between them can be summed up with the

719
00:28:47,430 --> 00:28:42,700
line is in dark skies the truth is

720
00:28:50,820 --> 00:28:47,440
actually out there that's interesting

721
00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:50,830
you know someone had mentioned in the in

722
00:28:55,140 --> 00:28:53,080
the chatroom that we should talk just a

723
00:28:58,110 --> 00:28:55,150
little bit about more about Bill more

724
00:29:01,650 --> 00:28:58,120
because that's an interesting that's a

725
00:29:04,410 --> 00:29:01,660
very interesting case yeah you know I

726
00:29:06,930 --> 00:29:04,420
mean he was a ufologist a respected

727
00:29:09,060 --> 00:29:06,940
ufologists and I can't remember what

728
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:09,070
year it was but I know a couple people

729
00:29:13,110 --> 00:29:11,530
that were actually at the MUFON event

730
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:13,120
where actually he came

731
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:17,170
with the fact right to the audience yeah

732
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:20,710
disinformation yep he came forward in

733
00:29:25,740 --> 00:29:23,710
1989 the the famous MUFON conference and

734
00:29:27,750 --> 00:29:25,750
that's covered in Greg bishops book I

735
00:29:29,790 --> 00:29:27,760
touch upon it in mine and there's

736
00:29:31,470 --> 00:29:29,800
actually some video footage of his

737
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:31,480
confession for lack of a better way of

738
00:29:34,860 --> 00:29:33,370
putting it featured in The Mirage Men

739
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:34,870
documentary as well for anybody who

740
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:37,930
hasn't seen that but more is more as a

741
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:40,510
fascinating case about that because this

742
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:42,490
is a guy who was a respected ufologist

743
00:29:46,530 --> 00:29:44,650
he's one along with Stanton Friedman one

744
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:46,540
of the original investigators of Roswell

745
00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:48,730
right he co-wrote with Charles Berlitz

746
00:29:54,810 --> 00:29:51,700
the original book on Roswell the Roswell

747
00:29:58,020 --> 00:29:54,820
incident published in 1980 yeah this is

748
00:29:59,820 --> 00:29:58,030
a guy who was perfectly respectable in

749
00:30:02,610 --> 00:29:59,830
the UFO field and clearly had an

750
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:02,620
interest in the subject and my feeling

751
00:30:08,460 --> 00:30:05,490
based on everything is is that like

752
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:08,470
bennewitz but not nowhere near to the

753
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:10,600
same extent bill Moore was used and

754
00:30:15,510 --> 00:30:12,730
abused why by people that he chose to

755
00:30:18,510 --> 00:30:15,520
trust in government by into making this

756
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:18,520
sort of Faustian bargain of if you'll

757
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:20,530
help us keep an eye on Bill Moore and

758
00:30:24,990 --> 00:30:22,810
feed him you know well yeah Bill Moore

759
00:30:26,670 --> 00:30:25,000
10 saying to Bill Moore if you look at

760
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:26,680
Paul bennewitz and keep an eye on him

761
00:30:32,220 --> 00:30:28,710
and feed him some false information and

762
00:30:35,580 --> 00:30:32,230
you prove yourself to us we'll give you

763
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:35,590
what we actually know and what happened

764
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:37,210
was is that I think in the end he

765
00:30:41,700 --> 00:30:38,890
realized that he had been played just as

766
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:41,710
much as anybody else had and a similar

767
00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:42,970
thing happened to Linda Moulton Howe

768
00:30:48,030 --> 00:30:45,790
around 1983 where she had a meeting with

769
00:30:49,950 --> 00:30:48,040
Dodi and Dodi handed her some documents

770
00:30:51,300 --> 00:30:49,960
and promised her some cooperation with

771
00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:51,310
the documentary she was hoping to make

772
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:53,860
to HBO which ended up there getting made

773
00:30:58,770 --> 00:30:56,890
I went early you're right yeah we which

774
00:31:00,480 --> 00:30:58,780
was entirely the point of why Dodi had

775
00:31:02,370 --> 00:31:00,490
brought her there and he promised her

776
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:02,380
cooperation and gave her documents that

777
00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:05,890
were clearly fake but that was the whole

778
00:31:09,810 --> 00:31:07,060
point was they didn't want anybody

779
00:31:11,820 --> 00:31:09,820
snooping around the topic yeah but the

780
00:31:13,980 --> 00:31:11,830
question is the question is why and

781
00:31:14,910 --> 00:31:13,990
nobody's even for my money Greg Bishop

782
00:31:18,450 --> 00:31:14,920
hasn't come up with a satisfactory

783
00:31:20,610 --> 00:31:18,460
answer to that question yeah that that

784
00:31:25,380 --> 00:31:20,620
is that is the big question and and I've

785
00:31:26,930 --> 00:31:25,390
often wondered why and any speculation

786
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:26,940
on and why they would do something

787
00:31:33,590 --> 00:31:31,050
that and by me I mean speculation is is

788
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:33,600
rampant I mean Greg Bishop and digging

789
00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:35,250
in his book into the history of what was

790
00:31:39,710 --> 00:31:37,140
going on at Kirtland at the time and in

791
00:31:41,420 --> 00:31:39,720
the surrounding area yeah there was all

792
00:31:43,490 --> 00:31:41,430
kinds of projects that were going on at

793
00:31:45,170 --> 00:31:43,500
the base there was one as I if I memory

794
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:45,180
serves I was actually using a

795
00:31:49,370 --> 00:31:47,250
combination of lasers in satellite and

796
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:49,380
lasers and satellite telescopes to

797
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:51,090
actually picture Russian satellites as

798
00:31:56,510 --> 00:31:55,170
they were flying over that was something

799
00:31:58,550 --> 00:31:56,520
that meant that bennewitz may have

800
00:32:00,400 --> 00:31:58,560
stumbled upon while he was there we know

801
00:32:03,290 --> 00:32:00,410
that this is also the period when the

802
00:32:05,990 --> 00:32:03,300
f-117 stealth fighter was in development

803
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:06,000
there's very strong evidence that at one

804
00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:08,010
point Paul bennewitz flew over the crash

805
00:32:12,110 --> 00:32:09,960
site of an f-117 when it was still

806
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:12,120
classified there's a drawing that's

807
00:32:16,610 --> 00:32:13,890
reproduced in Greg bishops book that

808
00:32:17,930 --> 00:32:16,620
bennewitz did that if I showed it to a

809
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,940
friend of mine who doesn't have an

810
00:32:20,030 --> 00:32:19,200
interest in the UFO field but is

811
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:20,040
ex-military

812
00:32:24,020 --> 00:32:22,410
and I showed him to this and said what

813
00:32:25,550 --> 00:32:24,030
do you think this is that somebody may

814
00:32:29,300 --> 00:32:25,560
have caught a glance of and his response

815
00:32:31,070 --> 00:32:29,310
back to me was it's an f-117 but they

816
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:31,080
told him it was a crashed atomic powered

817
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:32,880
alien spaceship in pulp and it's bought

818
00:32:38,990 --> 00:32:34,410
it because he trusted the people who

819
00:32:41,270 --> 00:32:39,000
told him that yeah there's there's no

820
00:32:42,530 --> 00:32:41,280
telling it may well have been even a

821
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:42,540
multi-faceted thing where they were

822
00:32:47,420 --> 00:32:44,970
trying to cover all of these projects

823
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:47,430
and maybe something was going down out

824
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:49,170
there in the desert involving you know

825
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:50,970
the government aliens we simply don't

826
00:32:54,620 --> 00:32:52,710
know and that's that's kind of the

827
00:32:57,530 --> 00:32:54,630
problem with it in the way is that here

828
00:32:59,270 --> 00:32:57,540
we are 30 odd years on from Moores

829
00:33:00,980 --> 00:32:59,280
confession 40 years on from when the

830
00:33:03,770 --> 00:33:00,990
bennewitz affair started and we simply

831
00:33:08,690 --> 00:33:03,780
don't have any answers even now you know

832
00:33:10,790 --> 00:33:08,700
I've wondered too if if an area 51 they

833
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:10,800
kind of like yeah yeah let's let them

834
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:12,690
think there's aliens there let's let

835
00:33:18,380 --> 00:33:14,880
them you know think there's UFOs there

836
00:33:20,570 --> 00:33:18,390
and and that way it'll explain some of

837
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:20,580
the things we're experimenting and you

838
00:33:25,430 --> 00:33:23,130
know it kind of I mean works yeah that's

839
00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:25,440
a distinct possibility because you look

840
00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:28,200
at the way area 51 entered ufology in

841
00:33:31,310 --> 00:33:30,360
the popular culture the first places

842
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:31,320
I've been able to come up where it

843
00:33:35,870 --> 00:33:33,570
mentioned was on the design infamous UFO

844
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,880
cover-up live event that went out for

845
00:33:40,130 --> 00:33:38,220
like two or three hours in 1988 which

846
00:33:40,790 --> 00:33:40,140
Richard Doty was involved in he was the

847
00:33:42,590 --> 00:33:40,800
shadowy

848
00:33:44,330 --> 00:33:42,600
you're known as the Falcon in that and I

849
00:33:45,950 --> 00:33:44,340
believe it's Dodi as the Falcon who

850
00:33:48,740 --> 00:33:45,960
makes the first public mention of area

851
00:33:51,890 --> 00:33:48,750
51 in Nevada and it's just a year later

852
00:33:54,020 --> 00:33:51,900
that Bob Lazar comes out through George

853
00:33:56,210 --> 00:33:54,030
Knapp in Las Vegas with this incredible

854
00:33:57,770 --> 00:33:56,220
story of working in s4 and all these

855
00:34:00,140 --> 00:33:57,780
strange things happening at the desert

856
00:34:02,150 --> 00:34:00,150
yeah um I don't want you know and I

857
00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:02,160
don't want to cast aspersions on anybody

858
00:34:06,830 --> 00:34:05,220
because once again I simply as much

859
00:34:09,140 --> 00:34:06,840
reading as I've done I simply don't know

860
00:34:10,850 --> 00:34:09,150
but it does it does seem like there was

861
00:34:13,130 --> 00:34:10,860
an attempt to seeded and it's entirely

862
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:13,140
possible in my mind anyways though I

863
00:34:16,910 --> 00:34:14,580
don't I wouldn't claim to know it for

864
00:34:18,980 --> 00:34:16,920
sure there's at least a possibility that

865
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:18,990
Bob Lazar was used in the same way that

866
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:22,320
Paul bennewitz was to spread the word

867
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:25,770
that this whole thing existed yeah I've

868
00:34:33,770 --> 00:34:29,010
often wondered about Lazar the whole

869
00:34:35,990 --> 00:34:33,780
story and and I there's a lot of people

870
00:34:39,530 --> 00:34:36,000
supporting his story all the way and I'm

871
00:34:42,230 --> 00:34:39,540
not one of them so I I get I get some

872
00:34:45,260 --> 00:34:42,240
flak when I talk about it but uh yeah I

873
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:45,270
think it's a it varied that very well

874
00:34:49,940 --> 00:34:47,910
could be it you know it could be what

875
00:34:51,830 --> 00:34:49,950
the story is with Bob Lazar that he was

876
00:34:55,550 --> 00:34:51,840
actually used I mean that is a

877
00:34:57,710 --> 00:34:55,560
possibility yeah and told us they'd be

878
00:34:59,660 --> 00:34:57,720
some reason is that what you would is

879
00:35:01,550 --> 00:34:59,670
that what you would speculate I don't

880
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:01,560
even I don't even know that he was told

881
00:35:05,660 --> 00:35:03,570
to say these things I mean he you know

882
00:35:07,790 --> 00:35:05,670
like his one glimpse of an alien for

883
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:07,800
sure was he walked by a door and he saw

884
00:35:11,450 --> 00:35:10,050
this grayish figure through a crack in

885
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:11,460
the door and he was told and somebody

886
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:12,570
nudged him in the back and told me to

887
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:14,490
keep looking forward you know that's not

888
00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:16,290
difficult to do but I think maybe the

889
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:18,690
idea is that you create an impression on

890
00:35:23,510 --> 00:35:22,170
somebody Hey you're working on this you

891
00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:23,520
know you create an atmosphere and you

892
00:35:27,950 --> 00:35:25,350
create an impression where the mind can

893
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,960
fill in the rest for you and Lazar was

894
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:30,000
just kind of let go at that point to

895
00:35:34,190 --> 00:35:32,640
kind of go tell his story to people yeah

896
00:35:36,170 --> 00:35:34,200
that's that's that's a possibility

897
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:36,180
anyways I I would like to hasten to add

898
00:35:39,860 --> 00:35:38,130
I don't necessarily think that is the

899
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:39,870
case but it's I can't dismiss the

900
00:35:46,550 --> 00:35:44,220
possibility outright yeah yeah so yeah

901
00:35:48,860 --> 00:35:46,560
I'm I never know what to really think

902
00:35:51,230 --> 00:35:48,870
about that whole situation you know

903
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:51,240
there's so many there's so many

904
00:35:57,380 --> 00:35:54,330
arguments that people make for him

905
00:36:01,400 --> 00:35:57,390
and you know there's a lot of arguments

906
00:36:03,050 --> 00:36:01,410
again him against him and when he didn't

907
00:36:05,930 --> 00:36:03,060
know that Kendall Square was outside of

908
00:36:07,940 --> 00:36:05,940
MIT anyone that goes to MIT knows that

909
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:07,950
and that's you know that that was in a

910
00:36:15,140 --> 00:36:11,760
public you know he was questioned

911
00:36:18,890 --> 00:36:15,150
publicly about that yeah you know so I

912
00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:18,900
mean there's just but and then when I've

913
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:20,460
mentioned that to people in the past I

914
00:36:24,110 --> 00:36:22,890
said well maybe he didn't go to MIT but

915
00:36:27,860 --> 00:36:24,120
how do we know the rest of the story

916
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:27,870
isn't true and right and that may be

917
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:29,850
deliberately the point of it is that

918
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:31,530
they you know because you think about

919
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:32,640
what happened with bennewitz was a

920
00:36:37,220 --> 00:36:34,650
perfectly respectable figure but started

921
00:36:39,260 --> 00:36:37,230
sprouting frankly nonsense to people to

922
00:36:41,090 --> 00:36:39,270
anybody who would listen which destroyed

923
00:36:42,290 --> 00:36:41,100
his credibility and that may have been

924
00:36:44,030 --> 00:36:42,300
the same thing with Lazar that they

925
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,040
think somebody who had exaggerated their

926
00:36:49,220 --> 00:36:47,040
credentials to a wide extent including

927
00:36:51,830 --> 00:36:49,230
the MIT thing and we exaggerated their

928
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:51,840
credentials and so that and gave him a

929
00:36:55,790 --> 00:36:53,970
glimpse of will say the truth in

930
00:36:57,200 --> 00:36:55,800
inverted commas and then sent him back

931
00:36:59,780 --> 00:36:57,210
out there but because he's not a

932
00:37:02,570 --> 00:36:59,790
credible figure people don't necessarily

933
00:37:03,410 --> 00:37:02,580
believe it Stanton Friedman for example

934
00:37:05,810 --> 00:37:03,420
the late great Stanton Friedman

935
00:37:09,890 --> 00:37:05,820
dismissed Lazar outright on the basis of

936
00:37:11,270 --> 00:37:09,900
that so you know it's I you know and I

937
00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:11,280
think it's important to keep in mind

938
00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:12,720
while talking about this information

939
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:16,020
it's important to keep the idea of the

940
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:17,610
UFO phenomenon separate from that

941
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:20,010
because the greatest success of the

942
00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:21,690
Benowitz affair and all of this

943
00:37:26,270 --> 00:37:23,640
disinformation effort is is that it's

944
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:26,280
now entangled too so people assume oh if

945
00:37:30,710 --> 00:37:29,010
all this isn't true then none of it is

946
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:30,720
true and I don't think that's that

947
00:37:33,730 --> 00:37:32,280
certainly is not the case there is an

948
00:37:36,290 --> 00:37:33,740
underlying reality to the situation

949
00:37:38,180 --> 00:37:36,300
there are strange things flying around

950
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:38,190
in our skies that anybody who spends a

951
00:37:42,890 --> 00:37:40,290
reasonable amount of time looking at the

952
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:42,900
evidence let alone you know what's now

953
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:46,650
come out says 2017 through a tip anybody

954
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:48,240
who looks at that evidence ought to come

955
00:37:52,190 --> 00:37:50,010
to that conclusion if they go in

956
00:37:54,050 --> 00:37:52,200
open-minded about it without blinkers on

957
00:37:56,690 --> 00:37:54,060
but that's a whole separate question

958
00:37:58,760 --> 00:37:56,700
from you know does does the government

959
00:38:00,500 --> 00:37:58,770
actually have crashed UFOs and you know

960
00:38:03,380 --> 00:38:00,510
alien bodies out it whether it's those

961
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:03,390
debates area 51 or wherever there are

962
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:05,490
two separate questions and the great

963
00:38:09,650 --> 00:38:07,890
success of the disinformation effort

964
00:38:11,299 --> 00:38:09,660
and the Mirage madness mark Pilkington

965
00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:11,309
turned him is they've intermingled those

966
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:12,660
questions together now so that they're

967
00:38:17,569 --> 00:38:15,569
completely inseparable you know that's

968
00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:17,579
such a good point and so many things I

969
00:38:23,150 --> 00:38:20,510
never really I never really thought of

970
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:23,160
Lazar along the lines of a possible

971
00:38:28,430 --> 00:38:25,650
disinformation tool or whatever you'd

972
00:38:30,529 --> 00:38:28,440
want to call him I never thought of it

973
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:30,539
in that way but you know these points

974
00:38:36,109 --> 00:38:32,490
are you bringing up you really do make a

975
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:36,119
lot of sense and you know because it

976
00:38:41,329 --> 00:38:37,529
definitely worked with Paul bennewitz

977
00:38:42,589 --> 00:38:41,339
and yeah and you know they they've

978
00:38:45,230 --> 00:38:42,599
destroyed his life I don't think

979
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:45,240
anyone's really destroyed Bob lazarre's

980
00:38:50,259 --> 00:38:48,210
life he's you know he has mentioned many

981
00:38:52,670 --> 00:38:50,269
times that he's not really happy about

982
00:38:54,799 --> 00:38:52,680
you know being in the spotlight but I

983
00:38:56,599 --> 00:38:54,809
don't know yeah yeah yeah

984
00:38:58,940 --> 00:38:56,609
I mean once again no telling

985
00:39:01,759 --> 00:38:58,950
unfortunately even after you know it's

986
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:01,769
now been 30 years since you know the

987
00:39:06,799 --> 00:39:03,690
Lazar came forward publicly the same

988
00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:06,809
year that bill Moore made his admission

989
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:08,670
at the MUFON conference of Israel and

990
00:39:11,930 --> 00:39:10,380
the Benowitz affair and we still don't

991
00:39:15,650 --> 00:39:11,940
have satisfactory answers to either one

992
00:39:17,779 --> 00:39:15,660
but I think it shows just how much money

993
00:39:19,609 --> 00:39:17,789
of the waters there's been and I think

994
00:39:22,339 --> 00:39:19,619
you know people are quick to forget that

995
00:39:24,499 --> 00:39:22,349
there's too many people for my money and

996
00:39:25,849 --> 00:39:24,509
I will I will be happy to take flak from

997
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:25,859
listeners for saying this

998
00:39:31,519 --> 00:39:27,930
there's too many people in the world of

999
00:39:32,809 --> 00:39:31,529
pathology as an outsider looking in who

1000
00:39:34,130 --> 00:39:32,819
are willing to believe anything that's

1001
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:34,140
put in front of them and I think that

1002
00:39:39,769 --> 00:39:35,609
that's that's a problem with the field

1003
00:39:40,970 --> 00:39:39,779
in general but there's you know people

1004
00:39:43,249 --> 00:39:40,980
you know there's this it's this

1005
00:39:45,499 --> 00:39:43,259
information or obvious hoaxes that

1006
00:39:47,390 --> 00:39:45,509
people take seriously you know people

1007
00:39:48,859 --> 00:39:47,400
are sometimes the willingness to believe

1008
00:39:50,420 --> 00:39:48,869
is a little too strong and it's been

1009
00:39:54,170 --> 00:39:50,430
played to the advantage of the Mirage

1010
00:39:56,660 --> 00:39:54,180
Minh I would argue yeah no you know that

1011
00:39:59,390 --> 00:39:56,670
is that is you know that can happen

1012
00:40:01,579 --> 00:39:59,400
we're you know I mean sometimes people

1013
00:40:03,410 --> 00:40:01,589
are vested in a story

1014
00:40:06,319 --> 00:40:03,420
maybe they write a book and then they

1015
00:40:09,079 --> 00:40:06,329
find out that you know something was a

1016
00:40:12,460 --> 00:40:09,089
hoax or some part of it was or whatever

1017
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:12,470
and yeah they can't let go of it because

1018
00:40:17,390 --> 00:40:15,089
it's part of their it's part of them and

1019
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,400
and so they just keep moving on with the

1020
00:40:21,109 --> 00:40:19,440
topic I've seen that I've seen that

1021
00:40:24,380 --> 00:40:21,119
happen in this field a little bit too

1022
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:24,390
so well it's really it's really

1023
00:40:29,059 --> 00:40:26,130
fascinating you just mentioned coming in

1024
00:40:30,319 --> 00:40:29,069
from the outside so that must be really

1025
00:40:31,999 --> 00:40:30,329
fascinating for someone that's really

1026
00:40:33,650 --> 00:40:32,009
never looked into it and then you start

1027
00:40:38,720 --> 00:40:33,660
looking into it there's a lot of layers

1028
00:40:40,819 --> 00:40:38,730
to this thing yeah yeah yeah go ahead

1029
00:40:42,259 --> 00:40:40,829
yeah I've been interested in it all my

1030
00:40:44,089 --> 00:40:42,269
life but it wasn't until I got the

1031
00:40:46,279 --> 00:40:44,099
Commission for the book in 2017 that I

1032
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:46,289
went I'm gonna take a deep dive into

1033
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:48,930
this and I'm gonna I'm gonna study up on

1034
00:40:52,609 --> 00:40:50,490
as much of this as I can and go through

1035
00:40:55,099 --> 00:40:52,619
all of it and realizing how much of it

1036
00:40:56,660 --> 00:40:55,109
is self referential and then you go back

1037
00:40:58,999 --> 00:40:56,670
to the original source and the original

1038
00:41:01,309 --> 00:40:59,009
source of some of this stuff isn't up to

1039
00:41:03,170 --> 00:41:01,319
scratch and you go why are we why do

1040
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:03,180
people buy this so easily

1041
00:41:07,099 --> 00:41:05,249
the Dulce base which you know I'm sorry

1042
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:07,109
to keep harping on about it it's a case

1043
00:41:11,420 --> 00:41:08,730
in point we know that was part of a

1044
00:41:13,579 --> 00:41:11,430
disinformation campaign and we know that

1045
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:13,589
the people who propagated it throughout

1046
00:41:17,299 --> 00:41:15,420
the 90s we're often of questionable

1047
00:41:19,009 --> 00:41:17,309
credentials but people still keep

1048
00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:19,019
harping on about still keep insisting

1049
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:21,089
not only that it existed but that it

1050
00:41:25,849 --> 00:41:23,130
still exists and is operational despite

1051
00:41:28,339 --> 00:41:25,859
all evidence to the contrary yeah

1052
00:41:29,809 --> 00:41:28,349
which so we have this question up here I

1053
00:41:35,299 --> 00:41:29,819
don't know if you've ever looked into

1054
00:41:37,729 --> 00:41:35,309
dr. Steven Greer I have so yeah Andrew

1055
00:41:42,950 --> 00:41:37,739
thanks for the question but I'm not

1056
00:41:49,190 --> 00:41:42,960
really I'm not really a backer of dr.

1057
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:49,200
Greer myself and I just you know I

1058
00:41:55,729 --> 00:41:50,970
really again I probably should watch

1059
00:41:58,099 --> 00:41:55,739
what I say but I I believe that I I

1060
00:42:01,519 --> 00:41:58,109
believe he started out very good and I'd

1061
00:42:05,329 --> 00:42:01,529
really that I you know that it's more

1062
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:05,339
about maybe success than anything else

1063
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:07,170
to him right now that's my that's my

1064
00:42:13,819 --> 00:42:12,210
feeling about Steven Greer my feelings

1065
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:13,829
on Greer pretty much marry yours I think

1066
00:42:18,019 --> 00:42:15,450
he started out in a good place but I too

1067
00:42:20,779 --> 00:42:18,029
think at least in some cases he's been a

1068
00:42:22,370 --> 00:42:20,789
little too willing to buy into things

1069
00:42:24,079 --> 00:42:22,380
that have been put in front of him the

1070
00:42:25,549 --> 00:42:24,089
story I can tell about Steve Greer

1071
00:42:27,349 --> 00:42:25,559
having not met him and interacted with

1072
00:42:29,779 --> 00:42:27,359
him is that very early on in my research

1073
00:42:32,029 --> 00:42:29,789
my mom had knee replacement surgery so I

1074
00:42:33,529 --> 00:42:32,039
moved in with her for a time and I was

1075
00:42:34,730 --> 00:42:33,539
still very the sub still doing research

1076
00:42:37,100 --> 00:42:34,740
and stuff one of the thing

1077
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:37,110
I watched was the documentary about that

1078
00:42:42,350 --> 00:42:39,450
he had done called unacknowledged which

1079
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:42,360
is on Netflix I think even now and my

1080
00:42:46,820 --> 00:42:44,730
mom watched it with me and for about the

1081
00:42:48,710 --> 00:42:46,830
first half of it as you know talking

1082
00:42:50,180 --> 00:42:48,720
about you know she said she worked on

1083
00:42:52,010 --> 00:42:50,190
the rest of narsil she has it comes from

1084
00:42:54,109 --> 00:42:52,020
a civilian background working alongside

1085
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:54,119
the military was very interested very

1086
00:42:57,980 --> 00:42:56,010
engaged especially when he's talking

1087
00:42:59,540 --> 00:42:57,990
about you know nuclear weapons being

1088
00:43:01,490 --> 00:42:59,550
interfered with which is a legitimate

1089
00:43:01,910 --> 00:43:01,500
concern I think we should all be worried

1090
00:43:05,690 --> 00:43:01,920
about

1091
00:43:07,550 --> 00:43:05,700
up a document and does and this is why

1092
00:43:10,700 --> 00:43:07,560
Marilyn Monroe died and it's because of

1093
00:43:13,010 --> 00:43:10,710
UFOs and she checked out and just didn't

1094
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:13,020
buy the rest of it and you know that

1095
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:14,250
document which has been in circulation

1096
00:43:19,370 --> 00:43:16,890
since the late 90s I think is reasonably

1097
00:43:21,620 --> 00:43:19,380
assumed by everybody to be a hug this is

1098
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:21,630
a supposed to document linking the death

1099
00:43:26,570 --> 00:43:24,690
of Marilyn Monroe to being given UFO

1100
00:43:29,450 --> 00:43:26,580
secrets by the Kennedys and she had to

1101
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:29,460
be effectively put down by Majestic or

1102
00:43:34,340 --> 00:43:32,640
the CIA and and that's a case in point

1103
00:43:35,870 --> 00:43:34,350
of you know for me if somebody who's a

1104
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:35,880
little too willing to believe anything

1105
00:43:39,109 --> 00:43:37,680
you put in front of them even when all

1106
00:43:42,849 --> 00:43:39,119
the evidence suggests that it's a hoax

1107
00:43:44,210 --> 00:43:42,859
and it's not true yeah I actually had a

1108
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:44,220
excuse me

1109
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:47,280
I had a comp sorry didn't mean to do

1110
00:43:54,500 --> 00:43:50,970
that I had a conversation with Marilyn

1111
00:43:57,140 --> 00:43:54,510
Monroe's hairdresser a very very they

1112
00:43:59,630 --> 00:43:57,150
were very very close and she said you

1113
00:44:01,280 --> 00:43:59,640
know she's just says no it's there's

1114
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:01,290
nothing conspiratorial really that

1115
00:44:07,790 --> 00:44:04,050
happened you know I mean they they were

1116
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:07,800
talking just a earlier that day and you

1117
00:44:12,349 --> 00:44:09,060
know talked every day there were really

1118
00:44:14,210 --> 00:44:12,359
good friends so yeah that one I think

1119
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:14,220
can be put to bed but anytime there's

1120
00:44:18,740 --> 00:44:17,280
anything mysterious it can just it can

1121
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:18,750
just keep going on and on with

1122
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:22,290
conspiracy theories and yeah that just

1123
00:44:26,780 --> 00:44:24,930
happens yeah I mean but the funny thing

1124
00:44:28,700 --> 00:44:26,790
is is that Marilyn Monroe's death wasn't

1125
00:44:30,650 --> 00:44:28,710
linked with UFOs until dark skies did it

1126
00:44:32,240 --> 00:44:30,660
cuz dark skies kind of sort of did it in

1127
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:32,250
one of their episodes about midway

1128
00:44:36,349 --> 00:44:33,450
through the show there's episode called

1129
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:36,359
the warrant omission which is one of the

1130
00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:37,920
you know there's a term in the area

1131
00:44:42,290 --> 00:44:40,290
called crook show and it's essentially

1132
00:44:43,790 --> 00:44:42,300
dark skies doing a clip show where

1133
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:43,800
they're basically recapping the first

1134
00:44:48,590 --> 00:44:46,890
half of the season to an audience with

1135
00:44:50,530 --> 00:44:48,600
the lead characters being brought in by

1136
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:50,540
be Kennedy to the Warren Commission and

1137
00:44:55,670 --> 00:44:52,800
but one of the things that happens in

1138
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:55,680
that is that Bobby Kennedy gets spoilers

1139
00:44:59,180 --> 00:44:56,850
for people who haven't seen the show

1140
00:45:01,250 --> 00:44:59,190
Bobby Kennedy gets blackmailed by

1141
00:45:03,170 --> 00:45:01,260
Majestic with footage of him with

1142
00:45:05,420 --> 00:45:03,180
Marilyn Monroe on the day that she died

1143
00:45:09,290 --> 00:45:05,430
that's right i watch that series

1144
00:45:11,780 --> 00:45:09,300
I watch that episode yeah but that idea

1145
00:45:14,720 --> 00:45:11,790
didn't exist until dark skies did it and

1146
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:14,730
it's the same thing with tying ufology

1147
00:45:19,010 --> 00:45:17,520
and with the JFK assassination it's true

1148
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:19,020
William Cooper got there in the early

1149
00:45:25,220 --> 00:45:21,810
90s with trying to think behold a pale

1150
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:25,230
horse I think was his infamous book and

1151
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:27,510
he did it there and I know that in the

1152
00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:28,890
documents that Bryce gave me there's

1153
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:31,950
some mention of him there as to what is

1154
00:45:36,500 --> 00:45:34,260
to this grand unification of conspiracy

1155
00:45:39,620 --> 00:45:36,510
they created putting the two together

1156
00:45:42,020 --> 00:45:39,630
but it was in a year or so of dark skies

1157
00:45:43,550 --> 00:45:42,030
finishing its run the woods the

1158
00:45:45,770 --> 00:45:43,560
father-and-son team came out with the

1159
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:45,780
documents so-called burned memo that

1160
00:45:50,090 --> 00:45:48,210
linked majestic in the CIA's

1161
00:45:51,950 --> 00:45:50,100
counterintelligence division to the JFK

1162
00:45:54,230 --> 00:45:51,960
assassination but nobody made that

1163
00:45:56,540 --> 00:45:54,240
connection publicly at least or

1164
00:45:58,700 --> 00:45:56,550
presented any kind of documents until

1165
00:46:01,220 --> 00:45:58,710
after dark skies had done it so here is

1166
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:01,230
a show that's borne out of ufology now

1167
00:46:06,050 --> 00:46:03,510
influencing youth ology and cross

1168
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:06,060
pollinating with it yeah that's really

1169
00:46:11,990 --> 00:46:08,490
great that's really something so this I

1170
00:46:14,570 --> 00:46:12,000
kind of disagree we have hypnosis up

1171
00:46:17,090 --> 00:46:14,580
there ask this question why you focus on

1172
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:17,100
dubious case instead of good cases you

1173
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:19,050
probably focus on all the cases we just

1174
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:21,180
happen to be talking about some of the

1175
00:46:25,790 --> 00:46:23,970
dubious things yeah I mean I'm you know

1176
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:25,800
I I'm talking we're just talking about

1177
00:46:29,990 --> 00:46:27,690
the dubious cases but I do certainly go

1178
00:46:31,130 --> 00:46:30,000
into the book there are places in the

1179
00:46:33,230 --> 00:46:31,140
book especially in the first chapter of

1180
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,240
the book where I'm looking at the

1181
00:46:37,820 --> 00:46:36,000
skeptics claims about various things and

1182
00:46:40,370 --> 00:46:37,830
in simple and I am not afraid to go in

1183
00:46:43,460 --> 00:46:40,380
there and take them apart or point out

1184
00:46:45,110 --> 00:46:43,470
the problems with them in cases I bright

1185
00:46:46,550 --> 00:46:45,120
briefly in the thing about the abduction

1186
00:46:48,350 --> 00:46:46,560
phenomenon and then go into the bendy

1187
00:46:50,270 --> 00:46:48,360
and Barney Hill case and I have I

1188
00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:50,280
believe I spend some time there taking

1189
00:46:54,980 --> 00:46:53,310
apart the the claim that Betty got the

1190
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:54,990
idea of the aliens with the wraparound

1191
00:46:59,180 --> 00:46:56,970
eyes from an episode of the Outer Limits

1192
00:47:02,180 --> 00:46:59,190
which is commonly thrown around there

1193
00:47:06,950 --> 00:47:03,829
to the backgrounds of some people who

1194
00:47:08,839 --> 00:47:06,960
became UFO skeptics but who initially

1195
00:47:10,370 --> 00:47:08,849
had an interest in it and Carl Sagan who

1196
00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:10,380
becomes a character in the last two

1197
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:12,839
episodes of dark skies is a classic case

1198
00:47:17,839 --> 00:47:15,690
in point of that yeah Sagan yes Sagan

1199
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:17,849
have an interest in UFOs dating back to

1200
00:47:24,770 --> 00:47:22,010
the 1950s paper a paper he wrote on that

1201
00:47:25,700 --> 00:47:24,780
yes weights are that which I which I

1202
00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:25,710
cite in the book

1203
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:28,260
it's basically him in 1962 this is a

1204
00:47:33,859 --> 00:47:31,049
paper funded by a NASA grant where he

1205
00:47:35,420 --> 00:47:33,869
puts together in scientific terms what

1206
00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:35,430
we now recognize is the ancient

1207
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:38,339
astronauts ancient alien hypothesis to

1208
00:47:43,609 --> 00:47:40,170
the point of even coming out and saying

1209
00:47:44,779 --> 00:47:43,619
and I believe I'm quoting him if I'm not

1210
00:47:46,990 --> 00:47:44,789
quoting and precisely I'm getting

1211
00:47:48,740 --> 00:47:47,000
awfully close to it there are particular

1212
00:47:50,779 --> 00:47:48,750
meticulous that could be studied

1213
00:47:53,690 --> 00:47:50,789
profitably by looking at it from this

1214
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:53,700
angle but within four years of writing

1215
00:47:59,109 --> 00:47:56,010
that Sagan has turned against the UFO

1216
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,119
phenomenon he's speaking out on CBS

1217
00:48:03,289 --> 00:48:01,200
against it and of course most famously

1218
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:03,299
in the penultimate episode of cosmos

1219
00:48:08,539 --> 00:48:05,130
going on about the Betty and Barney Hill

1220
00:48:10,819 --> 00:48:08,549
case and the starmap their Sagan how

1221
00:48:12,589 --> 00:48:10,829
somebody who had an interest in in the

1222
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:12,599
topic who suddenly didn't and the

1223
00:48:17,359 --> 00:48:15,210
question is why and one of the fun

1224
00:48:19,849 --> 00:48:17,369
things about dark skies is is that it

1225
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:19,859
offers its own solution as to why that

1226
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:23,520
might be yeah well when when dark skies

1227
00:48:28,069 --> 00:48:26,700
was happening Sagan was alive they

1228
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:28,079
didn't actually cast him on the show

1229
00:48:35,299 --> 00:48:30,450
though did they no they cast him

1230
00:48:37,309 --> 00:48:35,309
outright as dr. Sagan Karl etc he passed

1231
00:48:40,339 --> 00:48:37,319
away six months before those episodes

1232
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:40,349
aired but Bryce is very clear to say and

1233
00:48:44,779 --> 00:48:42,210
it's in I didn't get to cite those

1234
00:48:47,029 --> 00:48:44,789
specific documents in the book for space

1235
00:48:49,220 --> 00:48:47,039
reasons more than anything but they were

1236
00:48:51,980 --> 00:48:49,230
planning on featuring Carl Sagan in the

1237
00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:51,990
show very early on from when they were

1238
00:48:56,990 --> 00:48:55,619
pitching the show in 1995 they were they

1239
00:49:00,079 --> 00:48:57,000
were planning on having Sagan in the

1240
00:49:03,980 --> 00:49:00,089
show and by God they had him in the show

1241
00:49:07,309 --> 00:49:03,990
and it's glorious to behold for anybody

1242
00:49:10,250 --> 00:49:07,319
who has nodes it's the last two episodes

1243
00:49:11,779 --> 00:49:10,260
of the show check them out and I have to

1244
00:49:13,789 --> 00:49:11,789
say they can't the guy who played the

1245
00:49:15,740 --> 00:49:13,799
young Carl Sagan does pretty well I have

1246
00:49:17,420 --> 00:49:15,750
to say

1247
00:49:20,570 --> 00:49:17,430
and does he actually play along with

1248
00:49:23,210 --> 00:49:20,580
with the whole thing yeah that's that's

1249
00:49:25,790 --> 00:49:23,220
the whole point that that Brice and

1250
00:49:27,550 --> 00:49:25,800
Brent came up with and Brice as he could

1251
00:49:31,070 --> 00:49:27,560
maybe want to tell you when he comes on

1252
00:49:34,849 --> 00:49:31,080
actually met Carl Sagan in 1981 when he

1253
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:34,859
was at CNN involved when ii came on to

1254
00:49:39,290 --> 00:49:36,480
do a live half-hour think about the

1255
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:39,300
Voyager flyby of Saturn and him and Carl

1256
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:42,030
Sagan in the CNN parking lot tossing

1257
00:49:45,950 --> 00:49:44,730
around the UFO question and you know

1258
00:49:47,690 --> 00:49:45,960
saying and making all the typical

1259
00:49:49,630 --> 00:49:47,700
arguments of you know extraordinary

1260
00:49:53,180 --> 00:49:49,640
claims require extraordinary evidence

1261
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:53,190
but the whole idea that dark skies

1262
00:49:59,330 --> 00:49:56,880
throws out as Bryce told me about at

1263
00:50:01,250 --> 00:49:59,340
length in the book which I do quote from

1264
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:01,260
him on is that they had the thought that

1265
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:04,290
Sagan as a young cocky inquisitive

1266
00:50:09,589 --> 00:50:06,810
scientist could have been brought in by

1267
00:50:12,290 --> 00:50:09,599
majestic or whoever is in charge of a

1268
00:50:14,420 --> 00:50:12,300
cover-up and was told we can tell you

1269
00:50:17,089 --> 00:50:14,430
everything and you can work on it but

1270
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:17,099
you can't tell everybody and that Sagan

1271
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:19,410
would have been young and cocky enough

1272
00:50:25,540 --> 00:50:21,660
to think I can do this and I can get the

1273
00:50:28,579 --> 00:50:25,550
truth out and then became trapped well

1274
00:50:32,060 --> 00:50:28,589
isn't that something yeah that

1275
00:50:34,339 --> 00:50:32,070
extraordinary claims thing is actually

1276
00:50:36,050 --> 00:50:34,349
Carl Sagan you said a lot that's not his

1277
00:50:39,020 --> 00:50:36,060
he stole that from someone else I was

1278
00:50:42,849 --> 00:50:39,030
and others I forget right but that was

1279
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:42,859
an early an early statement and and I I

1280
00:50:47,089 --> 00:50:44,730
there's a story

1281
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:47,099
someone told me and I can't remember who

1282
00:50:57,690 --> 00:50:49,290
it was that he was sitting backstage

1283
00:51:02,190 --> 00:51:00,339
leans over and and basically had a

1284
00:51:04,809 --> 00:51:02,200
conversation with Hynek that he really

1285
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:04,819
was just afraid of his career but he

1286
00:51:09,010 --> 00:51:06,170
thinks there's really something going on

1287
00:51:10,809 --> 00:51:09,020
that's that's the story someone told me

1288
00:51:12,579 --> 00:51:10,819
on this show at some point and I don't

1289
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:12,589
know how true it is yeah I don't either

1290
00:51:15,010 --> 00:51:13,970
I didn't come across that story of my

1291
00:51:18,910 --> 00:51:15,020
research because I don't love to a

1292
00:51:20,799 --> 00:51:18,920
feature did in the book ah yeah let's

1293
00:51:23,859 --> 00:51:20,809
see let me see what this question says

1294
00:51:25,299 --> 00:51:23,869
before I post it and we're going to be

1295
00:51:30,789 --> 00:51:25,309
going into a break in about three

1296
00:51:32,890 --> 00:51:30,799
minutes oh another one about that's okay

1297
00:51:36,460 --> 00:51:32,900
we don't need to actually read that one

1298
00:51:38,529 --> 00:51:36,470
but anyway so what do you think we have

1299
00:51:40,990 --> 00:51:38,539
we have three minutes or so before we go

1300
00:51:44,170 --> 00:51:41,000
into the break and when we do go into

1301
00:51:46,750 --> 00:51:44,180
the break I'm going to play the dark

1302
00:51:48,250 --> 00:51:46,760
skies reboot trailer so I'm going to be

1303
00:51:50,529 --> 00:51:48,260
playing that while we're we're breaking

1304
00:51:55,059 --> 00:51:50,539
we're going to get Bryce Zabel in at

1305
00:51:56,019 --> 00:51:55,069
that time while we have this few minutes

1306
00:51:58,569 --> 00:51:56,029
what do you think is the most

1307
00:52:00,400 --> 00:51:58,579
interesting UFO case is it something

1308
00:52:04,990 --> 00:52:00,410
back in history or something fairly

1309
00:52:06,819 --> 00:52:05,000
recent I continue to be interested in

1310
00:52:08,289 --> 00:52:06,829
you know I'm gonna give maybe the

1311
00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:08,299
slightly naive beginner's answer I

1312
00:52:13,390 --> 00:52:10,450
continue to be fascinated with Roswell

1313
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,400
having delved into that pretty you know

1314
00:52:17,319 --> 00:52:15,200
I feel fairly extensively for the book

1315
00:52:18,730 --> 00:52:17,329
and I have friends who are from New

1316
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:18,740
Mexico so they would ask me when they

1317
00:52:22,059 --> 00:52:20,510
knew I had written the book you know how

1318
00:52:24,250 --> 00:52:22,069
do you feel about it and I said well of

1319
00:52:27,250 --> 00:52:24,260
all the solutions I've been given about

1320
00:52:30,609 --> 00:52:27,260
Roswell from alien spacecraft to weather

1321
00:52:32,769 --> 00:52:30,619
balloon to mogul top-secret balloon

1322
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:32,779
combined with crash-test dummies falling

1323
00:52:38,890 --> 00:52:35,690
out at the sky in the 50s and 60s any

1324
00:52:41,260 --> 00:52:38,900
Jacobson's you know Russians you know

1325
00:52:43,690 --> 00:52:41,270
Russian stealth fighter with Josef

1326
00:52:45,370 --> 00:52:43,700
Mengele children on board you know Nick

1327
00:52:48,010 --> 00:52:45,380
Redfern throwing out a similar thing I

1328
00:52:49,599 --> 00:52:48,020
have to say that alien spaceship falling

1329
00:52:51,670 --> 00:52:49,609
out of the sky is not the craziest

1330
00:52:52,720 --> 00:52:51,680
solution I've come across - what

1331
00:52:56,349 --> 00:52:52,730
happened at Roswell

1332
00:52:57,940 --> 00:52:56,359
um I continue to be fascinated with the

1333
00:52:59,140 --> 00:52:57,950
a tip stuff that's going on at the

1334
00:53:00,940 --> 00:52:59,150
moment and the revelations that are

1335
00:53:03,099 --> 00:53:00,950
coming drip drip drip out of the

1336
00:53:05,109 --> 00:53:03,109
Pentagon into the Stars Academy

1337
00:53:08,289 --> 00:53:05,119
I am I continue to be slightly leery of

1338
00:53:09,609 --> 00:53:08,299
that in some respects because I know

1339
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:09,619
that there's been rumors of Richard Doty

1340
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:11,280
being involved to it with to the store

1341
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:12,810
I don't think anybody's ever confirmed

1342
00:53:18,770 --> 00:53:16,650
to denied but on the whole I continue to

1343
00:53:20,210 --> 00:53:18,780
be continuing to be interested in the

1344
00:53:23,030 --> 00:53:20,220
topic of washing it and kind of seeing

1345
00:53:25,340 --> 00:53:23,040
where things go next but you know it's

1346
00:53:27,590 --> 00:53:25,350
so much so I you know I've written to my

1347
00:53:29,990 --> 00:53:27,600
representatives in Congress about what's

1348
00:53:31,820 --> 00:53:30,000
come out and said you know why aren't we

1349
00:53:33,350 --> 00:53:31,830
looking into this you know clearly we

1350
00:53:34,460 --> 00:53:33,360
have things in our airspace that are

1351
00:53:36,380 --> 00:53:34,470
flying around that we can't identify

1352
00:53:39,470 --> 00:53:36,390
this ought to be a national security

1353
00:53:42,170 --> 00:53:39,480
concern why isn't it if it isn't

1354
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:42,180
somewhere already and yeah we need to

1355
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:43,890
talk about it publicly and this time for

1356
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:45,450
the end of ridicule and deny as far as

1357
00:53:50,030 --> 00:53:48,090
I'm concerned if I ever knew that

1358
00:53:53,090 --> 00:53:50,040
Richard Doty actually had something to

1359
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:53,100
do with any of this stuff I would I mean

1360
00:53:57,680 --> 00:53:54,810
I'd really like to know that I mean

1361
00:54:01,340 --> 00:53:57,690
where did you hear that that popped up

1362
00:54:04,070 --> 00:54:01,350
on the somewhere talking about another

1363
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:04,080
UFO contest somewhere in the skies their

1364
00:54:07,610 --> 00:54:05,910
Facebook group of why about a year or

1365
00:54:09,170 --> 00:54:07,620
two ago somebody alleged Richard Doty

1366
00:54:10,880 --> 00:54:09,180
was involved with it and there was a

1367
00:54:13,430 --> 00:54:10,890
whole thread about it which I wish I had

1368
00:54:15,230 --> 00:54:13,440
I wish I had in front of me but nobody

1369
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:15,240
ever as far as I know somebody claimed

1370
00:54:18,590 --> 00:54:16,650
that they were gonna email them and ask

1371
00:54:20,030 --> 00:54:18,600
for clarification and if they did he

1372
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:20,040
mailed them they never posted their

1373
00:54:24,830 --> 00:54:22,110
response back I'll put it that way yeah

1374
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:24,840
well I'm actually going to I'll follow

1375
00:54:28,850 --> 00:54:26,880
through with that and myself I have a

1376
00:54:32,180 --> 00:54:28,860
way to get in touch with someone there

1377
00:54:34,700 --> 00:54:32,190
and I will definitely do that and just

1378
00:54:38,350 --> 00:54:34,710
you know they may they may get actually

1379
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:38,360
angry at the question you never know but

1380
00:54:43,610 --> 00:54:40,680
it's one that I think is definitely

1381
00:54:46,940 --> 00:54:43,620
worth asking so we are going to go into

1382
00:54:48,020 --> 00:54:46,950
the break and so hang in everyone we'll

1383
00:54:51,820 --> 00:54:48,030
be right back

1384
00:54:54,530 --> 00:54:51,830
well actually we are going to play the

1385
00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:54,540
trailer it was the reboot dark skies

1386
00:54:59,390 --> 00:54:56,610
reboot and it's going to start right now

1387
00:55:03,200 --> 00:54:59,400
so hang in on KCRA we'll be right back

1388
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:08,570
I know it happened at Roswell what else

1389
00:55:16,430 --> 00:55:11,970
you think you know what you're doing

1390
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:16,440
can't stay hidden forever I took a big

1391
00:55:20,780 --> 00:55:19,050
chance taking you on board John no oh so

1392
00:55:25,550 --> 00:55:20,790
I should be eternally grateful forget it

1393
00:55:27,349 --> 00:55:25,560
I don't exactly know who you work for

1394
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:27,359
now but I'm pretty close to the truth

1395
00:55:50,370 --> 00:55:46,829
I was always very interested to meet you

1396
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:50,380
I've heard so much about you

1397
00:55:57,999 --> 00:55:53,450
if she hadn't killed herself we would

1398
00:56:03,120 --> 00:55:58,009
have had you to kill as many of them as

1399
00:56:05,559 --> 00:56:03,130
we can find it's getting worse

1400
00:56:10,180 --> 00:56:05,569
the first thing you should know about us

1401
00:56:19,559 --> 00:56:10,190
is that we have people everywhere am i

1402
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:24,640
my name is Sean Lowen guard you don't

1403
00:56:36,430 --> 00:56:31,630
what gets reported our media is just a

1404
00:56:38,529 --> 00:56:36,440
distraction from the truth about the

1405
00:56:39,819 --> 00:56:38,539
hive how they're behind the things

1406
00:56:42,009 --> 00:56:39,829
shaping our lives

1407
00:56:45,759 --> 00:56:42,019
everything from cloning the global

1408
00:56:51,970 --> 00:56:45,769
warmth and the horse but I haven't given

1409
00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:54,940
these days even the CIA doesn't know

1410
00:56:59,289 --> 00:56:57,530
about majestic there are new young

1411
00:57:07,250 --> 00:56:59,299
warriors out there and that do their

1412
00:57:15,710 --> 00:57:10,550
I don't have a lot of faith in them the

1413
00:57:21,730 --> 00:57:15,720
hive is just too bad the hive is just

1414
00:57:27,410 --> 00:57:21,740
too damn pervasive just do something

1415
00:57:35,250 --> 00:57:30,670
[Music]

1416
00:57:48,850 --> 00:57:35,260
the world's changed City time

1417
00:57:56,480 --> 00:57:52,310
free to the homo man out tear the

1418
00:57:57,610 --> 00:57:56,490
uniform inflicting the rule of the

1419
00:58:10,680 --> 00:57:57,620
entire

1420
00:58:25,239 --> 00:58:21,240
[Music]

1421
00:58:33,589 --> 00:58:30,859
- one go alright welcome back this is

1422
00:58:36,140 --> 00:58:33,599
Martin Willis and we have the one and

1423
00:58:38,450 --> 00:58:36,150
only Bryce sable joining Matthew Kressel

1424
00:58:40,579 --> 00:58:38,460
and I welcome to the show Bryce thanks

1425
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:40,589
very much glad to be here yeah

1426
00:58:45,859 --> 00:58:42,690
Bryce up we're going to be talking later

1427
00:58:48,140 --> 00:58:45,869
about what you have going on kind of the

1428
00:58:49,579 --> 00:58:48,150
breaking news we talked a little bit

1429
00:58:53,210 --> 00:58:49,589
about the possibility of this happening

1430
00:58:56,329 --> 00:58:53,220
but we'll talk about that in the last

1431
00:58:58,969 --> 00:58:56,339
half-hour but so now that I have the

1432
00:59:03,440 --> 00:58:58,979
co-creator of dark skies everyone on

1433
00:59:05,870 --> 00:59:03,450
YouTube just saw that great trailer so

1434
00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:05,880
what was the reboot you were trying to

1435
00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:09,210
get it picked up no that was no over the

1436
00:59:14,029 --> 00:59:12,180
history of the show people those of us

1437
00:59:15,559 --> 00:59:14,039
who made it and our fans have always

1438
00:59:18,559 --> 00:59:15,569
wanted it to continue

1439
00:59:22,099 --> 00:59:18,569
but people have debated how to best do

1440
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:22,109
that I mean we were leaving NBC and

1441
00:59:26,870 --> 00:59:23,460
trying to get it picked up by another

1442
00:59:29,569 --> 00:59:26,880
network we had a pitch for example at

1443
00:59:31,430 --> 00:59:29,579
USA I believe at the time and the only

1444
00:59:33,289 --> 00:59:31,440
way they would even consider doing it is

1445
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:33,299
we had to put it in the president which

1446
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:36,690
was a bit of a challenge given that the

1447
00:59:41,809 --> 00:59:39,210
entire concept of the show was to sort

1448
00:59:44,959 --> 00:59:41,819
of march through history and and see how

1449
00:59:48,289 --> 00:59:44,969
this alien invasion had been involved so

1450
00:59:51,099 --> 00:59:48,299
but we tried and then I think that we

1451
00:59:56,420 --> 00:59:55,130
maybe over five years ago at least Brent

1452
00:59:59,209 --> 00:59:56,430
and I were just trying to see if we

1453
01:00:00,739 --> 00:59:59,219
could figure out a way to sort of tell

1454
01:00:02,509 --> 01:00:00,749
the story and the president and it

1455
01:00:04,339 --> 01:00:02,519
because other people were saying maybe

1456
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:04,349
that's what you have to do in order to

1457
01:00:09,170 --> 01:00:06,930
get Sony interested to do it again

1458
01:00:10,940 --> 01:00:09,180
well I like the the trailer and and it

1459
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:10,950
was beautifully edited by Robert Englund

1460
01:00:14,839 --> 01:00:12,960
and again if people are watching it and

1461
01:00:17,180 --> 01:00:14,849
saying wait those aren't dark skies

1462
01:00:19,940 --> 01:00:17,190
actors it's a sales reel

1463
01:00:22,489 --> 01:00:19,950
it's not meant for broadcast it's just

1464
01:00:24,849 --> 01:00:22,499
meant to illustrate to somebody what the

1465
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:24,859
show could potentially look like so I

1466
01:00:30,109 --> 01:00:27,650
just put that out there

1467
01:00:31,969 --> 01:00:30,119
it so it uses actors from other

1468
01:00:33,019 --> 01:00:31,979
productions this is a sizzle reel they

1469
01:00:35,569 --> 01:00:33,029
make them all the time in Hollywood

1470
01:00:37,460 --> 01:00:35,579
generally you never see them you know

1471
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:37,470
we're letting you play it on the show

1472
01:00:44,359 --> 01:00:39,450
but I hope you know it's not not a

1473
01:00:46,849 --> 01:00:44,369
broadcast thing my get might my take is

1474
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:46,859
I don't necessarily want to be in the

1475
01:00:51,710 --> 01:00:49,410
present if I had my druthers about how

1476
01:00:53,930 --> 01:00:51,720
to reboot dark skies I think I would

1477
01:00:56,749 --> 01:00:53,940
just pick it up after we left it off in

1478
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:56,759
67 or and the thing that Brent and I

1479
01:01:00,739 --> 01:00:58,319
always wanted to do is what we call the

1480
01:01:03,829 --> 01:01:00,749
cosmic Watergate version where we would

1481
01:01:05,239 --> 01:01:03,839
pick it up in 74 and the reason the 18

1482
01:01:07,579 --> 01:01:05,249
minute and a half

1483
01:01:09,499 --> 01:01:07,589
18 and a half minute gap on the Nixon

1484
01:01:11,930 --> 01:01:09,509
tape existed would have been that he was

1485
01:01:14,180 --> 01:01:11,940
talking about UFOs oh my god that'd be

1486
01:01:16,999 --> 01:01:14,190
great baby yeah what are your thoughts

1487
01:01:19,519 --> 01:01:17,009
on that Matthew the certainly picking up

1488
01:01:21,019 --> 01:01:19,529
with cosmic Watergate gets my vote Bryce

1489
01:01:22,640 --> 01:01:21,029
was kind enough to let me look at those

1490
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:22,650
documents as well as part of my research

1491
01:01:26,329 --> 01:01:24,690
and certainly I think of the various

1492
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:26,339
things I saw about ways you could pick

1493
01:01:30,229 --> 01:01:28,799
it up picking it up at that point would

1494
01:01:32,269 --> 01:01:30,239
certainly be the way I would want you to

1495
01:01:33,620 --> 01:01:32,279
go forward as a fan of the show and as

1496
01:01:36,380 --> 01:01:33,630
somebody with an interest in the various

1497
01:01:39,650 --> 01:01:36,390
topics involved I think it we we

1498
01:01:42,650 --> 01:01:39,660
actually we have yet to we've had one

1499
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:42,660
meeting at Sony over the years about it

1500
01:01:46,370 --> 01:01:44,640
if we have another one I might try to

1501
01:01:48,279 --> 01:01:46,380
split the difference I think it might be

1502
01:01:52,819 --> 01:01:48,289
interesting to have a modern-day

1503
01:01:54,890 --> 01:01:52,829
sensibility of it and also weave it with

1504
01:01:57,019 --> 01:01:54,900
a historical perspective I don't know

1505
01:01:59,420 --> 01:01:57,029
exactly how I would do that but with

1506
01:02:03,349 --> 01:01:59,430
Jeff if challenged I think we could yeah

1507
01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:03,359
I remember I got Bryce I connected you

1508
01:02:09,799 --> 01:02:06,569
with Dave David O'Leary that was writing

1509
01:02:11,269 --> 01:02:09,809
a project blue blue so there's a you

1510
01:02:14,209 --> 01:02:11,279
know there's a little bit of cross not

1511
01:02:18,319 --> 01:02:14,219
cross over but there's there is in a way

1512
01:02:19,759 --> 01:02:18,329
that it that was vintage of the time you

1513
01:02:22,130 --> 01:02:19,769
know that they were the cases they were

1514
01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:22,140
you know looking on - I mean look at

1515
01:02:28,849 --> 01:02:25,529
dark skies aired in the 90s and and

1516
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:28,859
Bluebook most recently but in fact Blue

1517
01:02:33,049 --> 01:02:30,930
Book took place in the 50s Darksiders in

1518
01:02:36,829 --> 01:02:33,059
the 60s so they were like the prequel I

1519
01:02:38,900 --> 01:02:36,839
guess too dark in you know if you have

1520
01:02:41,329 --> 01:02:38,910
certain fans they'll say dark skies was

1521
01:02:44,660 --> 01:02:41,339
he was more realistic than blue

1522
01:02:47,989 --> 01:02:44,670
because they did take massive dramatic

1523
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:47,999
license with blue bookcases yeah so I

1524
01:02:52,789 --> 01:02:49,650
mean different people see at different

1525
01:02:56,059 --> 01:02:52,799
ways but you know they're both period

1526
01:02:58,430 --> 01:02:56,069
UFO our dramas so but we are first

1527
01:03:00,769 --> 01:02:58,440
that's all I can say yeah yeah that's

1528
01:03:02,690 --> 01:03:00,779
right and I understand that they didn't

1529
01:03:05,660 --> 01:03:02,700
get picked up for another season that's

1530
01:03:08,630 --> 01:03:05,670
what I think yeah yeah you know and and

1531
01:03:10,219 --> 01:03:08,640
I everybody when their show gets

1532
01:03:13,099 --> 01:03:10,229
canceled wants to try to find another

1533
01:03:15,140 --> 01:03:13,109
buyer for it we certainly did yeah when

1534
01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:15,150
dark skies got cancelled there was no

1535
01:03:20,989 --> 01:03:18,690
Facebook or Twitter or YouTube or

1536
01:03:23,239 --> 01:03:20,999
anything to sort of organize fans around

1537
01:03:26,180 --> 01:03:23,249
it was enormous ly difficult we were

1538
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:26,190
unable to do it but I don't think it

1539
01:03:30,829 --> 01:03:28,799
necessarily gets easier just because you

1540
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:30,839
have the social media it's a it's a

1541
01:03:35,599 --> 01:03:33,450
given that every show even even a show

1542
01:03:38,180 --> 01:03:35,609
that's low rated or not good and I'm not

1543
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:38,190
saying that about blue book but it's

1544
01:03:42,890 --> 01:03:39,690
it's heart just because you have fans

1545
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:42,900
doesn't mean that they should spend the

1546
01:03:47,239 --> 01:03:45,450
money per episode that I'm sure Blue

1547
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:47,249
Book costs to put it back on the air

1548
01:03:52,219 --> 01:03:49,410
that's a call that only a buyer could

1549
01:03:53,630 --> 01:03:52,229
make from a creative point of view but

1550
01:03:56,150 --> 01:03:53,640
what what greater wouldn't want to

1551
01:03:57,859 --> 01:03:56,160
finish telling this story yeah yeah I

1552
01:04:00,589 --> 01:03:57,869
gotta say you know the production

1553
01:04:03,049 --> 01:04:00,599
quality of dark skies is very very good

1554
01:04:07,249 --> 01:04:03,059
I was really impressed with it and also

1555
01:04:10,249 --> 01:04:07,259
for the time some absolutely very good

1556
01:04:12,440 --> 01:04:10,259
special effects yeah I mean I think the

1557
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:12,450
special effects we would be able to do

1558
01:04:17,359 --> 01:04:15,089
much better and in a new iteration today

1559
01:04:19,279 --> 01:04:17,369
they were very difficult you know we I

1560
01:04:20,599 --> 01:04:19,289
was just talking with the star Eric

1561
01:04:23,509 --> 01:04:20,609
close today because we're working on

1562
01:04:25,999 --> 01:04:23,519
something else and we were recalling the

1563
01:04:28,640 --> 01:04:26,009
budget of dark skies was like 1.2

1564
01:04:31,789 --> 01:04:28,650
million dollars per episode which you

1565
01:04:35,059 --> 01:04:31,799
know is almost nothing in today's you

1566
01:04:39,170 --> 01:04:35,069
know our drama field so we made it on a

1567
01:04:41,479 --> 01:04:39,180
budget it's it's cheaper today to do

1568
01:04:43,910 --> 01:04:41,489
special effects or visual effects than

1569
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:43,920
it was back then there are aliens for

1570
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:46,410
example our greys were basically puppets

1571
01:04:52,249 --> 01:04:49,410
most of the time and we did a good job

1572
01:04:54,650 --> 01:04:52,259
with them and Todd masters created some

1573
01:04:55,570 --> 01:04:54,660
very intriguing looking ones but today

1574
01:04:58,030 --> 01:04:55,580
that would all

1575
01:05:00,130 --> 01:04:58,040
you know put into the computer and you'd

1576
01:05:04,060 --> 01:05:00,140
spew out your greys and they'd look even

1577
01:05:08,770 --> 01:05:04,070
better yeah yeah those things were real

1578
01:05:11,710 --> 01:05:08,780
weren't they I mean well yeah he wanted

1579
01:05:15,280 --> 01:05:11,720
you to believe so yeah now a pretty good

1580
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:15,290
job with that so can you tell Bryce what

1581
01:05:19,750 --> 01:05:17,570
there was a little bit of controversy on

1582
01:05:21,640 --> 01:05:19,760
how this actually dark skies was

1583
01:05:27,070 --> 01:05:21,650
cancelled only after one season how did

1584
01:05:29,380 --> 01:05:27,080
that what happened well well you know

1585
01:05:34,500 --> 01:05:29,390
look dark skies was canceled after one

1586
01:05:37,420 --> 01:05:34,510
season because in the cruel reality of

1587
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:37,430
ratings it was on a Saturday night at 8

1588
01:05:43,000 --> 01:05:39,770
o'clock and it was just a very tough

1589
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:43,010
time slot and it you know I don't think

1590
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:44,810
I got the the numbers I don't I don't

1591
01:05:48,420 --> 01:05:46,370
know what controversy about the

1592
01:05:51,310 --> 01:05:48,430
cancellation there were can't there were

1593
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:51,320
controversies in dark skies cancellation

1594
01:05:55,150 --> 01:05:54,170
I don't think was one of them tell me

1595
01:05:57,190 --> 01:05:55,160
what you're talking about

1596
01:05:59,440 --> 01:05:57,200
no you know I'm a totally have that

1597
01:06:02,620 --> 01:05:59,450
confused with something else well we had

1598
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:02,630
we had controversy about starting first

1599
01:06:06,340 --> 01:06:04,250
of all we were approached by the Office

1600
01:06:08,650 --> 01:06:06,350
of Naval Intelligence or at least people

1601
01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:08,660
who said they were at the very beginning

1602
01:06:15,070 --> 01:06:10,930
so that happened and then we are also

1603
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:15,080
sort of there's no other way to put it

1604
01:06:19,330 --> 01:06:17,330
we were attacked by the people behind

1605
01:06:21,100 --> 01:06:19,340
men in black which included barry

1606
01:06:23,170 --> 01:06:21,110
sonnenfeld the director and Steven

1607
01:06:25,990 --> 01:06:23,180
Spielberg who basically were making

1608
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:26,000
their movie at the same time at the same

1609
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:28,970
studios we were doing dark skies and we

1610
01:06:35,080 --> 01:06:32,690
had like characters in in black outfits

1611
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:35,090
because men in black as Matthew well

1612
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:37,610
knows and and Martin you well know go

1613
01:06:41,890 --> 01:06:40,010
way back to the 50s it's not like I made

1614
01:06:45,490 --> 01:06:41,900
up men in black but I had men in black

1615
01:06:48,700 --> 01:06:45,500
in the 60s as our as our characters and

1616
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:48,710
I got a phone call one day and I won't

1617
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:50,090
go into all the details but this is a

1618
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:52,010
pretty shocking phone call I get a phone

1619
01:06:58,570 --> 01:06:55,730
call from the the studio executive who

1620
01:07:00,490 --> 01:06:58,580
said get your men out of there dark

1621
01:07:02,830 --> 01:07:00,500
suits their black suits today and I I

1622
01:07:05,140 --> 01:07:02,840
said what I just told you oh come on

1623
01:07:07,210 --> 01:07:05,150
that goes back to the 50s I didn't make

1624
01:07:09,250 --> 01:07:07,220
it up Spielberg can make it up know it

1625
01:07:12,040 --> 01:07:09,260
but he says you know what

1626
01:07:14,650 --> 01:07:12,050
I'll be right down I'm coming to the set

1627
01:07:16,570 --> 01:07:14,660
he comes to the set I mean takes me

1628
01:07:19,180 --> 01:07:16,580
aside he goes listen I'm gonna put this

1629
01:07:21,970 --> 01:07:19,190
as clearly as I can for you get your

1630
01:07:23,890 --> 01:07:21,980
guys out of the black suits today or we

1631
01:07:27,820 --> 01:07:23,900
will shut down the production and burn

1632
01:07:29,710 --> 01:07:27,830
the negative ah now I've never well I've

1633
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:29,720
been around in the business a while I

1634
01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:32,570
have never heard that said to anybody on

1635
01:07:37,390 --> 01:07:34,640
any other show ever because literally

1636
01:07:39,670 --> 01:07:37,400
they had a network order for six

1637
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:39,680
episodes at the time that was said to me

1638
01:07:43,540 --> 01:07:41,210
and they would have just given it up

1639
01:07:45,730 --> 01:07:43,550
they were just like we're not gonna tick

1640
01:07:48,790 --> 01:07:45,740
off Steven Spielberg and we're not gonna

1641
01:07:52,990 --> 01:07:48,800
take a chance screwing up the Men in

1642
01:07:55,300 --> 01:07:53,000
Black Series so it was like we were

1643
01:07:58,000 --> 01:07:55,310
given a list of 19 non-negotiable

1644
01:07:58,330 --> 01:07:58,010
demands we had to shoot 11 extra days I

1645
01:08:01,570 --> 01:07:58,340
believe

1646
01:08:04,030 --> 01:08:01,580
to get the and we had to move all kinds

1647
01:08:05,530 --> 01:08:04,040
of rotoscoping to get gone so the guys

1648
01:08:08,380 --> 01:08:05,540
were no longer in black suits they were

1649
01:08:10,930 --> 01:08:08,390
in brown suits and blue suits and you

1650
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:10,940
know that kind of thing and we couldn't

1651
01:08:15,609 --> 01:08:12,170
call them men in black we had to call

1652
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:15,619
them cloakers yep unreal that's really

1653
01:08:20,769 --> 01:08:17,810
some pretty much that is me amazing and

1654
01:08:22,539 --> 01:08:20,779
today it would be a lot easier to change

1655
01:08:25,059 --> 01:08:22,549
the color in someone's suit instantly

1656
01:08:27,160 --> 01:08:25,069
digitally it worked although it was a

1657
01:08:28,539 --> 01:08:27,170
you know a brutal power play no matter

1658
01:08:30,849 --> 01:08:28,549
how you looked at it it wouldn't matter

1659
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:30,859
if there how you changed him I mean as

1660
01:08:36,249 --> 01:08:34,130
it turned out the changing of the colors

1661
01:08:38,289 --> 01:08:36,259
of the suits came entirely out of our

1662
01:08:39,999 --> 01:08:38,299
budget so in other words somebody else

1663
01:08:43,780 --> 01:08:40,009
had a problem with what we were doing

1664
01:08:45,820 --> 01:08:43,790
and we had to pay for it yeah yeah

1665
01:08:48,519 --> 01:08:45,830
hundred sixteen thousand dollars later

1666
01:08:50,979 --> 01:08:48,529
yeah exactly it was not a cheap thing to

1667
01:08:53,349 --> 01:08:50,989
do oh wow

1668
01:08:54,999 --> 01:08:53,359
Bryce one thing I know that Matthew

1669
01:09:01,420 --> 01:08:55,009
knows this answer but I'm gonna ask you

1670
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:01,430
to tell your story if you would what

1671
01:09:10,030 --> 01:09:05,210
what was what was the how would the

1672
01:09:12,430 --> 01:09:10,040
whole dark skies things start how did

1673
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:12,440
the series come to life yeah how did you

1674
01:09:18,690 --> 01:09:15,410
this your brainchild or at least half of

1675
01:09:22,539 --> 01:09:18,700
yours well no I I had been doing

1676
01:09:25,749 --> 01:09:22,549
UFO pieces prior to dark skies I had

1677
01:09:27,670 --> 01:09:25,759
written and produced this a film for the

1678
01:09:30,209 --> 01:09:27,680
sci-fi channel called official denial

1679
01:09:33,220 --> 01:09:30,219
which was a UFO piece and I had pitched

1680
01:09:36,249 --> 01:09:33,230
ironically it is back in 1990 I pitched

1681
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:36,259
a UFO drama series with Spielberg's

1682
01:09:42,249 --> 01:09:38,960
Amblin to all four networks called

1683
01:09:44,079 --> 01:09:42,259
sightings but I was producing I was

1684
01:09:46,079 --> 01:09:44,089
executive producing a television series

1685
01:09:50,709 --> 01:09:46,089
called mantis which was about the first

1686
01:09:53,470 --> 01:09:50,719
african-american superhero at Fox and on

1687
01:09:57,760 --> 01:09:53,480
television and I was at Fox on that show

1688
01:09:59,500 --> 01:09:57,770
and my assistant said you know you

1689
01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:59,510
really got to talk to my husband if you

1690
01:10:02,979 --> 01:10:01,280
think if you know anything about UFOs

1691
01:10:04,690 --> 01:10:02,989
you really got to talk to him so she

1692
01:10:06,970 --> 01:10:04,700
introduced me to her husband this is

1693
01:10:09,880 --> 01:10:06,980
Patricia Freedman introduced me to Brent

1694
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:09,890
Friedman and in the middle of this

1695
01:10:13,450 --> 01:10:11,930
mandus was in flux and Brent just

1696
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:13,460
started coming to the office and we were

1697
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:15,650
hanging out and talking about it and we

1698
01:10:20,020 --> 01:10:17,450
sort of fell into the rabbit hole of

1699
01:10:23,080 --> 01:10:20,030
ufology and came up with this idea that

1700
01:10:26,440 --> 01:10:23,090
if you believe that Roswell was the true

1701
01:10:28,660 --> 01:10:26,450
event and we both did then you can

1702
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:28,670
imagine if people weren't talking about

1703
01:10:34,440 --> 01:10:31,850
it daily there was a cover-up of

1704
01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:34,450
unprecedented proportions so we thought

1705
01:10:39,970 --> 01:10:36,910
that would be an interesting time to

1706
01:10:42,250 --> 01:10:39,980
bounce ahead to the new frontier John

1707
01:10:43,900 --> 01:10:42,260
Kennedy's coming to office everybody is

1708
01:10:47,170 --> 01:10:43,910
optimistic and yet there's this

1709
01:10:50,530 --> 01:10:47,180
corrosive terrible secret so how it came

1710
01:10:52,750 --> 01:10:50,540
about is just that Brent and I just

1711
01:10:54,820 --> 01:10:52,760
couldn't stop ourselves so not only did

1712
01:10:56,740 --> 01:10:54,830
we come up with this crazy idea but we

1713
01:10:59,290 --> 01:10:56,750
felt like it not only was it so crazy

1714
01:11:01,600 --> 01:10:59,300
but we felt if we don't actually prove

1715
01:11:03,700 --> 01:11:01,610
to people that we can deliver it they'll

1716
01:11:06,729 --> 01:11:03,710
never buy it from us so what we did is

1717
01:11:09,130 --> 01:11:06,739
we created this super classified

1718
01:11:11,380 --> 01:11:09,140
briefing book that became the basis of

1719
01:11:14,170 --> 01:11:11,390
selling the television series and and

1720
01:11:15,910 --> 01:11:14,180
the thing that Matthew knows so well and

1721
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:15,920
I believe you know as well but what we

1722
01:11:22,690 --> 01:11:19,760
we tried to do was to say that we had

1723
01:11:25,570 --> 01:11:22,700
been encouraged by a government insider

1724
01:11:27,550 --> 01:11:25,580
to tell the truth is fiction in order

1725
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:27,560
not to get ourselves killed and other

1726
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:31,370
people killed right so dark skies became

1727
01:11:36,860 --> 01:11:34,250
a television series about what had

1728
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:36,870
really happened but disguised as

1729
01:11:41,870 --> 01:11:38,850
to keep everybody alive and breathing

1730
01:11:44,780 --> 01:11:41,880
sort of that what the concept became and

1731
01:11:46,100 --> 01:11:44,790
and I just want to paint one picture for

1732
01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:46,110
you because it's always kind of fun

1733
01:11:52,010 --> 01:11:49,770
so this notebook basically we met with

1734
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:52,020
all three networks in one day and left a

1735
01:11:56,630 --> 01:11:54,570
copy of this notebook with them and I

1736
01:11:58,940 --> 01:11:56,640
actually have them in my office here and

1737
01:12:00,350 --> 01:11:58,950
they had a gold foil seal on them and

1738
01:12:02,810 --> 01:12:00,360
they said they were classified on the

1739
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:02,820
outside and they were wrapped in brown

1740
01:12:08,270 --> 01:12:05,130
wrapping paper with twine something like

1741
01:12:10,550 --> 01:12:08,280
straight out of the 40s and so we left

1742
01:12:11,900 --> 01:12:10,560
Network presidents with these things and

1743
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:11,910
they had to like get their scissors

1744
01:12:16,040 --> 01:12:13,530
there alone in their office after we

1745
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:16,050
left they had to cut this twine open up

1746
01:12:20,030 --> 01:12:17,520
the twine open up the brown wrapping

1747
01:12:23,480 --> 01:12:20,040
paper and there's this notebook with a

1748
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:23,490
gold foil seal that basically says if

1749
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:26,810
you break this seal you accept the

1750
01:12:32,570 --> 01:12:29,610
consequences of treason if you talk

1751
01:12:34,610 --> 01:12:32,580
about it it's okay they open up this

1752
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:34,620
thing and there's this notebook inside

1753
01:12:40,580 --> 01:12:37,650
that says basically we're calling upon

1754
01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:40,590
you to tell the truth about UFOs but to

1755
01:12:44,930 --> 01:12:43,490
do it as a fictional television series

1756
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:44,940
Wow

1757
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:47,610
so it was pretty great and two out of

1758
01:12:51,650 --> 01:12:49,410
three of them tried to buy it the day we

1759
01:12:53,690 --> 01:12:51,660
pitched it so oh my goodness

1760
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:53,700
yeah that's unusual yeah it's very

1761
01:12:59,660 --> 01:12:55,890
unusual I've I've sold other television

1762
01:13:01,910 --> 01:12:59,670
series since then but it's never is it I

1763
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:01,920
mean I wouldn't call that easy but it

1764
01:13:06,320 --> 01:13:04,050
was super successful and it's it's

1765
01:13:11,570 --> 01:13:06,330
usually much harder yeah yeah

1766
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:11,580
interesting so Matthew you got to enter

1767
01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:12,930
you got to interview

1768
01:13:17,630 --> 01:13:15,330
Bryce you got to know him is it and is

1769
01:13:20,930 --> 01:13:17,640
that when you is that how you started

1770
01:13:23,870 --> 01:13:20,940
your research on the book by getting to

1771
01:13:26,150 --> 01:13:23,880
know them first or how did that go well

1772
01:13:27,650 --> 01:13:26,160
I had been in touch with price before

1773
01:13:28,910 --> 01:13:27,660
because he did a very good book called

1774
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:28,920
surrounded by enemies which is a

1775
01:13:33,020 --> 01:13:30,690
alternate history novel won him the

1776
01:13:36,710 --> 01:13:33,030
sideways and time award about if JFK had

1777
01:13:38,660 --> 01:13:36,720
survived Dallas yeah yeah we had been in

1778
01:13:40,100 --> 01:13:38,670
touch of before that but why don't I got

1779
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:40,110
the Commission for the book I emailed

1780
01:13:45,530 --> 01:13:42,090
Bryce and Bryce put me in touch with

1781
01:13:46,730 --> 01:13:45,540
Brant and I then emailed both of them

1782
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:46,740
saying well I'd love to sit down and

1783
01:13:50,480 --> 01:13:49,050
start doing interviews and I sent a

1784
01:13:52,780 --> 01:13:50,490
couple of follow-up emails I didn't

1785
01:13:55,100 --> 01:13:52,790
here a word and it wasn't actually until

1786
01:13:56,600 --> 01:13:55,110
after I had done the first draft of the

1787
01:13:59,450 --> 01:13:56,610
book and send it to the publisher and

1788
01:14:01,730 --> 01:13:59,460
gotten notes back on it that I was able

1789
01:14:03,890 --> 01:14:01,740
I got back in touch with Bryce to ask

1790
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:03,900
some questions and I don't know if you

1791
01:14:09,730 --> 01:14:05,250
remember this price but you asked me

1792
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:09,740
where I had been for 18 months right and

1793
01:14:14,090 --> 01:14:12,210
the joke at the time that majestic was

1794
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:14,100
probably pulling things out of the ether

1795
01:14:18,020 --> 01:14:15,690
because you had never gotten any of my

1796
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:18,030
emails I haven't seen those your yeah

1797
01:14:23,570 --> 01:14:20,730
correct so I don't know what the story

1798
01:14:25,310 --> 01:14:23,580
is on that one but once yeah we got in

1799
01:14:26,870 --> 01:14:25,320
touch we scheduled an interview and as I

1800
01:14:29,150 --> 01:14:26,880
said you were you were very kind with

1801
01:14:31,490 --> 01:14:29,160
your time and your energies and sort of

1802
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:31,500
helping me out with the research asking

1803
01:14:35,510 --> 01:14:33,810
probably some asinine questions but also

1804
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:35,520
supplying the documents and stuff which

1805
01:14:41,660 --> 01:14:38,370
I really formed the backbone of the book

1806
01:14:43,430 --> 01:14:41,670
by the way how much the book I was just

1807
01:14:45,440 --> 01:14:43,440
gonna say that was no small feat because

1808
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:45,450
I wanted Matthew to have access to

1809
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:47,280
everything that would make sense right

1810
01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:49,650
did help him write a good book because I

1811
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:51,450
didn't figure there's gonna be a massive

1812
01:14:55,250 --> 01:14:53,280
amount of people writing dark skies

1813
01:14:57,140 --> 01:14:55,260
books the series had been gone a while

1814
01:14:59,480 --> 01:14:57,150
so I was like I want to I want somebody

1815
01:15:01,010 --> 01:14:59,490
to get this right so I literally use

1816
01:15:04,820 --> 01:15:01,020
that as an opportunity must have spent

1817
01:15:06,890 --> 01:15:04,830
days going through you know you can see

1818
01:15:09,910 --> 01:15:06,900
behind me I've got my drawers full of

1819
01:15:12,350 --> 01:15:09,920
dark sky stuff and contracts and and

1820
01:15:13,790 --> 01:15:12,360
notebooks and everything and I just I've

1821
01:15:16,430 --> 01:15:13,800
got a scanner back there and I just

1822
01:15:18,500 --> 01:15:16,440
started scanning like crazy and then

1823
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:18,510
organizing it and then putting it into a

1824
01:15:22,100 --> 01:15:20,280
folder and sharing it with him so that

1825
01:15:24,530 --> 01:15:22,110
he could fall into the same rabbit hole

1826
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:24,540
that brent knight fallen into 20 years

1827
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:26,850
earlier and i think it turned out very

1828
01:15:30,470 --> 01:15:28,890
well and I'm very very happy that

1829
01:15:35,210 --> 01:15:30,480
Matthew has written that book because

1830
01:15:37,580 --> 01:15:35,220
it's I think you know not to get too

1831
01:15:39,830 --> 01:15:37,590
crazy here but at some point the truth

1832
01:15:42,500 --> 01:15:39,840
about what's really going on with the

1833
01:15:45,140 --> 01:15:42,510
UFO issue and has been going on will be

1834
01:15:47,810 --> 01:15:45,150
told and new entire histories are going

1835
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:47,820
to be written about how how could we not

1836
01:15:52,940 --> 01:15:49,920
have known and you know how were people

1837
01:15:56,360 --> 01:15:52,950
acclimated etc etc and I think the dark

1838
01:16:00,680 --> 01:15:56,370
skies storyline will be part of telling

1839
01:16:04,250 --> 01:16:00,690
that history yeah really interesting and

1840
01:16:06,709 --> 01:16:04,260
I really like the way Bryce how you

1841
01:16:08,120 --> 01:16:06,719
you woven all these different characters

1842
01:16:10,850 --> 01:16:08,130
and you know things that were really

1843
01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:10,860
going on back in the 1960s with that

1844
01:16:16,700 --> 01:16:13,440
that was really really great did you

1845
01:16:18,620 --> 01:16:16,710
have like episodes written ahead for

1846
01:16:21,339 --> 01:16:18,630
another season did you go that far I

1847
01:16:24,589 --> 01:16:21,349
mean did you have like an overall scope

1848
01:16:26,899 --> 01:16:24,599
of most television is but if you do a

1849
01:16:29,810 --> 01:16:26,909
full order we did 20 hours which is

1850
01:16:32,870 --> 01:16:29,820
pretty much a full order if you do that

1851
01:16:35,060 --> 01:16:32,880
you're just clinging on for bare life at

1852
01:16:37,430 --> 01:16:35,070
the end of it you know you're bloodied

1853
01:16:40,009 --> 01:16:37,440
and beaten and you know you have that

1854
01:16:41,870 --> 01:16:40,019
well and you're not eating right and you

1855
01:16:43,819 --> 01:16:41,880
haven't been getting an exercise and you

1856
01:16:45,379 --> 01:16:43,829
need some months off to regenerate then

1857
01:16:47,479 --> 01:16:45,389
you come back get the writers room

1858
01:16:49,490 --> 01:16:47,489
together we knew generally where we

1859
01:16:52,370 --> 01:16:49,500
would have gone you know I mean we were

1860
01:16:54,919 --> 01:16:52,380
in a chronology we're in a nice run left

1861
01:16:57,500 --> 01:16:54,929
to our own devices we would have left

1862
01:17:00,290 --> 01:16:57,510
John lung garden in the summer of love

1863
01:17:02,169 --> 01:17:00,300
in 1967 at the end of the first season

1864
01:17:05,899 --> 01:17:02,179
and we would have come back probably in

1865
01:17:07,850 --> 01:17:05,909
1968 with the you know because that was

1866
01:17:09,740 --> 01:17:07,860
considered one of the most crazy years

1867
01:17:13,279 --> 01:17:09,750
in American history and we would have

1868
01:17:17,390 --> 01:17:13,289
looked at the riots and the and the rise

1869
01:17:19,700 --> 01:17:17,400
of Nixon and the death of Martin Luther

1870
01:17:22,669 --> 01:17:19,710
King and the death of Robert Kennedy

1871
01:17:24,770 --> 01:17:22,679
because remember Martin Robert Kennedy

1872
01:17:26,330 --> 01:17:24,780
was a central character in the dark

1873
01:17:29,629 --> 01:17:26,340
skies story yes

1874
01:17:32,629 --> 01:17:29,639
so his 1968 would have been a powerful

1875
01:17:35,660 --> 01:17:32,639
watershed moment because here was our

1876
01:17:39,979 --> 01:17:35,670
guy tough as nails but he was still on

1877
01:17:42,350 --> 01:17:39,989
the inside fighting to not only defeat

1878
01:17:46,640 --> 01:17:42,360
the hive but to eventually bring the

1879
01:17:48,740 --> 01:17:46,650
American public into the battle and yet

1880
01:17:49,939 --> 01:17:48,750
he would have been killed so yeah we we

1881
01:17:54,200 --> 01:17:49,949
knew that but we didn't know the

1882
01:17:55,819 --> 01:17:54,210
specifics yeah you know you you you you

1883
01:17:57,350 --> 01:17:55,829
lay out things I mean here's the thing

1884
01:17:59,569 --> 01:17:57,360
what's what do they always say about the

1885
01:18:02,270 --> 01:17:59,579
military battle it's like no plan

1886
01:18:04,549 --> 01:18:02,280
survives contact with the enemy right

1887
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:04,559
yep I think that's so that's roughly

1888
01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:07,130
what television is like no plan survives

1889
01:18:12,049 --> 01:18:10,050
actual production I mean you yeah they

1890
01:18:13,910 --> 01:18:12,059
make all these great plans and we're

1891
01:18:16,759 --> 01:18:13,920
gonna and Bretton I'd that notebook we

1892
01:18:18,140 --> 01:18:16,769
wrote literally laid out all of human

1893
01:18:21,410 --> 01:18:18,150
history from 65

1894
01:18:24,290 --> 01:18:21,420
million BC to like 2050 or something and

1895
01:18:26,689 --> 01:18:24,300
while it was a nice shot across the bow

1896
01:18:28,220 --> 01:18:26,699
as soon as we got into developing this

1897
01:18:30,890 --> 01:18:28,230
series it's like well we're not going to

1898
01:18:33,740 --> 01:18:30,900
do that and let's do this instead and

1899
01:18:36,290 --> 01:18:33,750
you know the ripple effects just you

1900
01:18:38,990 --> 01:18:36,300
know work through it so you do make

1901
01:18:40,459 --> 01:18:39,000
changes yeah I have to say I'm really

1902
01:18:41,479 --> 01:18:40,469
curious to know what you guys would have

1903
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:41,489
done with the Robert Kennedy

1904
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:43,050
assassination so much high strangeness

1905
01:18:48,380 --> 01:18:46,080
there with Sirhan Sirhan and the

1906
01:18:49,700 --> 01:18:48,390
question of extra shooters and what you

1907
01:18:52,189 --> 01:18:49,710
guys could have done particularly with

1908
01:18:53,870 --> 01:18:52,199
Sirhan's showing mental issues and being

1909
01:18:56,479 --> 01:18:53,880
keen on hypnosis which you guys had

1910
01:18:57,680 --> 01:18:56,489
touched upon earlier in the show with

1911
01:18:59,600 --> 01:18:57,690
the high doing that I wouldn't have been

1912
01:19:02,030 --> 01:18:59,610
really curious to see what you won't

1913
01:19:03,740 --> 01:19:02,040
have done if you had gotten to that

1914
01:19:06,890 --> 01:19:03,750
point map new is a hundred percent

1915
01:19:09,350 --> 01:19:06,900
correct there I mean you you throw the

1916
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:09,360
Robert Kennedy situation into a room

1917
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:11,280
full of writers who are writing a

1918
01:19:18,140 --> 01:19:16,290
paranoid conspiracy show and and and we

1919
01:19:20,540 --> 01:19:18,150
would have clearly gone to town on that

1920
01:19:23,209 --> 01:19:20,550
one I mean nothing welcome back him

1921
01:19:25,070 --> 01:19:23,219
being our central character I think what

1922
01:19:27,740 --> 01:19:25,080
we might have you know we would have

1923
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:27,750
really built to it we we would have

1924
01:19:32,899 --> 01:19:30,570
really really made that mean something

1925
01:19:35,510 --> 01:19:32,909
and then I think under that scenario in

1926
01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:35,520
a second season when we got to the end

1927
01:19:38,899 --> 01:19:37,050
of that second season we probably would

1928
01:19:40,840 --> 01:19:38,909
have caught up you know we did we did

1929
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:40,850
roughly seven years in the first season

1930
01:19:46,580 --> 01:19:43,650
doing roughly seven more we'd have ended

1931
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:46,590
up in 1974 with that cosmic Watergate

1932
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:50,730
storyline about Nixon you know talking

1933
01:19:53,959 --> 01:19:53,010
about UFOs but to show you the dark

1934
01:19:55,370 --> 01:19:53,969
skies twist

1935
01:19:56,899 --> 01:19:55,380
what have we all think about Richard

1936
01:19:58,910 --> 01:19:56,909
Nixon I think he was a terrible

1937
01:20:02,479 --> 01:19:58,920
president and a cheat and a liar right

1938
01:20:05,030 --> 01:20:02,489
but but what we would have said because

1939
01:20:06,919 --> 01:20:05,040
we always wanted to be subversive it

1940
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:06,929
wasn't you you want to subvert any

1941
01:20:11,540 --> 01:20:10,050
common knowledge in the series so the

1942
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:11,550
eighteen and a half minute gap would

1943
01:20:17,470 --> 01:20:13,530
have been Nixon talking about the hive

1944
01:20:20,330 --> 01:20:17,480
with air Lichtman and Haldeman but

1945
01:20:21,919 --> 01:20:20,340
realizing he could not level with the

1946
01:20:26,240 --> 01:20:21,929
American people about the threat the

1947
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:26,250
hive posed and so as a consequence he

1948
01:20:30,649 --> 01:20:28,170
would have had to take in the fall and

1949
01:20:32,420 --> 01:20:30,659
just said I can't ever let them listen

1950
01:20:34,460 --> 01:20:32,430
to those eighteen and a half

1951
01:20:36,860 --> 01:20:34,470
I'm gonna have to write out this

1952
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:36,870
impeachment thing or get rid or resign

1953
01:20:41,300 --> 01:20:39,210
so it would have been in his own way

1954
01:20:44,030 --> 01:20:41,310
Nixon would have fallen on the sword to

1955
01:20:45,650 --> 01:20:44,040
protect the cover-up and it it makes his

1956
01:20:47,480 --> 01:20:45,660
choice if Gerald Ford is replaced with

1957
01:20:49,280 --> 01:20:47,490
vice president even more interesting

1958
01:20:51,020 --> 01:20:49,290
because Ford's history with the subject

1959
01:20:53,930 --> 01:20:51,030
is a congressman boy oh boy

1960
01:20:55,820 --> 01:20:53,940
and we you know because all these people

1961
01:20:58,340 --> 01:20:55,830
had these connections and then what

1962
01:21:00,260 --> 01:20:58,350
happens after Ford in comes Jimmy Carter

1963
01:21:02,600 --> 01:21:00,270
who has seen a UFO yeah that's right

1964
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:02,610
yeah and don't heart to go and say

1965
01:21:07,910 --> 01:21:05,520
everything is related and anything

1966
01:21:10,790 --> 01:21:07,920
anybody's ever said about UFOs is gonna

1967
01:21:13,490 --> 01:21:10,800
be in that series that's where the it

1968
01:21:16,070 --> 01:21:13,500
just gets fun yeah well you also think

1969
01:21:18,380 --> 01:21:16,080
of there's that story I'm sure you've

1970
01:21:21,380 --> 01:21:18,390
probably heard it that supposedly Jackie

1971
01:21:24,530 --> 01:21:21,390
Gleason and Nixon hooked up together and

1972
01:21:27,320 --> 01:21:24,540
and and Nixon showed him an alien or

1973
01:21:29,270 --> 01:21:27,330
something I heard that story of course

1974
01:21:32,780 --> 01:21:29,280
we've heard it it's in our notebook and

1975
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:32,790
I would say yes at dark skies gone into

1976
01:21:37,550 --> 01:21:34,770
a second season you would have seen the

1977
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:37,560
first on film representation of Jackie

1978
01:21:43,430 --> 01:21:40,050
Gleason and Richard Nixon taking a

1979
01:21:46,550 --> 01:21:43,440
nighttime drive in Florida - oh look at

1980
01:21:48,650 --> 01:21:46,560
aliens yeah right that's exactly the

1981
01:21:51,590 --> 01:21:48,660
story I we were just waiting to tell

1982
01:21:54,590 --> 01:21:51,600
that one I mean that one was cleaned up

1983
01:21:57,170 --> 01:21:54,600
and ready to go yeah I wonder who yet

1984
01:22:00,500 --> 01:21:57,180
had have done Nixon back then rich

1985
01:22:02,690 --> 01:22:00,510
little probably you know actually it's

1986
01:22:04,970 --> 01:22:02,700
what's interesting about that is you

1987
01:22:07,580 --> 01:22:04,980
don't want someone identified like that

1988
01:22:09,310 --> 01:22:07,590
because then it verges into caricature

1989
01:22:11,570 --> 01:22:09,320
and your audience has a harder time

1990
01:22:12,170 --> 01:22:11,580
suspending their disbelief right yeah

1991
01:22:13,940 --> 01:22:12,180
absolutely

1992
01:22:16,190 --> 01:22:13,950
it didn't get it yeah it's comedian

1993
01:22:19,610 --> 01:22:16,200
playing Richard Nixon so I think what we

1994
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:19,620
would have done is to have cast widely

1995
01:22:25,220 --> 01:22:21,690
oh you know cast a wide net and cast

1996
01:22:27,530 --> 01:22:25,230
wisely about so that the person might

1997
01:22:29,150 --> 01:22:27,540
take on these people is it's great if

1998
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:29,160
you can get someone who just nails it

1999
01:22:34,460 --> 01:22:30,900
but that's rare

2000
01:22:36,350 --> 01:22:34,470
it is good to suggest it properly so you

2001
01:22:38,090 --> 01:22:36,360
know our Bobby Kennedy didn't look a

2002
01:22:41,510 --> 01:22:38,100
hundred percent like him or sound 100

2003
01:22:44,660 --> 01:22:41,520
but but he had his essence yeah and he

2004
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:44,670
had his humanity and and his toughness

2005
01:22:48,920 --> 01:22:45,930
and that's really what can

2006
01:22:51,350 --> 01:22:48,930
and you know but but we really have to

2007
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:51,360
get into that because you really have a

2008
01:22:54,890 --> 01:22:52,560
choice when you're doing a show like

2009
01:22:56,870 --> 01:22:54,900
darks guys every single week we had

2010
01:23:01,760 --> 01:22:56,880
somebody famous that we were casting

2011
01:23:07,130 --> 01:23:01,770
whether it was Jim Morrison or you I

2012
01:23:09,770 --> 01:23:07,140
mean anybody weak my gosh we just

2013
01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:09,780
literally ran the gum gamut of hundreds

2014
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:11,970
of these characters and so what I think

2015
01:23:16,340 --> 01:23:14,250
we ended up doing is if the character

2016
01:23:18,590 --> 01:23:16,350
wasn't a big speaking part but was sort

2017
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:18,600
of someone in the background you went a

2018
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:19,890
little more for the physical

2019
01:23:25,130 --> 01:23:21,810
representation but if they were a big

2020
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:25,140
actor and had her at a role then you you

2021
01:23:31,670 --> 01:23:28,530
you went for the the best acting but

2022
01:23:34,010 --> 01:23:31,680
once in a while you kind of had fun with

2023
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:34,020
it so like when we did Timothy Leary in

2024
01:23:39,380 --> 01:23:36,690
the final episode I cast my friend dawn

2025
01:23:42,710 --> 01:23:39,390
most who played Ralph Malph on happy

2026
01:23:44,210 --> 01:23:42,720
days oh wow he played Timothy yes and he

2027
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:44,220
brought a little bit of humor to it

2028
01:23:49,190 --> 01:23:46,410
because people see dawn and they think

2029
01:23:50,990 --> 01:23:49,200
he's humorous but then he played it as

2030
01:23:55,070 --> 01:23:51,000
straight as he could and it was fun it

2031
01:23:56,750 --> 01:23:55,080
just worked yeah Wow well that that is

2032
01:23:58,370 --> 01:23:56,760
that's really great well I actually

2033
01:24:01,400 --> 01:23:58,380
thought your Bobby Kennedy was really

2034
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:01,410
good the accent was excellent

2035
01:24:08,050 --> 01:24:05,040
and and it's funny you're you're the

2036
01:24:11,000 --> 01:24:08,060
lead character I forget his name

2037
01:24:13,970 --> 01:24:11,010
well John lone guard yeah yours name

2038
01:24:17,450 --> 01:24:13,980
jelly jar close yeah okay he looked a

2039
01:24:22,100 --> 01:24:17,460
lot like a Kennedy he look Erik is one

2040
01:24:24,260 --> 01:24:22,110
of those classic handsome men and he you

2041
01:24:26,960 --> 01:24:24,270
know I think he was 25 at the time

2042
01:24:29,180 --> 01:24:26,970
clean-shaven he really did look like a

2043
01:24:33,530 --> 01:24:29,190
new frontiersman you know that night we

2044
01:24:35,960 --> 01:24:33,540
wanted a naive idealistic guy to come to

2045
01:24:38,390 --> 01:24:35,970
Washington DC and then get all mussed up

2046
01:24:40,790 --> 01:24:38,400
into the majestic 12 fight against the

2047
01:24:42,350 --> 01:24:40,800
hive and Eric was terrific like I said I

2048
01:24:44,240 --> 01:24:42,360
just saw Eric today he's got a beard

2049
01:24:46,130 --> 01:24:44,250
because he's been in you know he's been

2050
01:24:49,310 --> 01:24:46,140
in staying at home like the rest of us

2051
01:24:50,900 --> 01:24:49,320
and and he looks tough and he's he's

2052
01:24:52,700 --> 01:24:50,910
still the most wonderful guy in the

2053
01:24:54,680 --> 01:24:52,710
world but he's got a whole different

2054
01:24:55,700 --> 01:24:54,690
look to him which is what would have

2055
01:24:59,960 --> 01:24:55,710
happened a lone guard

2056
01:25:01,760 --> 01:24:59,970
I mean lone guard I guess here's the

2057
01:25:03,950 --> 01:25:01,770
this may be putting too fine a point on

2058
01:25:06,500 --> 01:25:03,960
it but you bring up the Eric close John

2059
01:25:09,380 --> 01:25:06,510
lone guard character young guy right and

2060
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:09,390
who was in charge of majestic 12 it was

2061
01:25:13,940 --> 01:25:12,570
Franklin Bach played by JT Walsh and the

2062
01:25:16,610 --> 01:25:13,950
two of them represented the two

2063
01:25:18,890 --> 01:25:16,620
polarities of disclosure Eric closest

2064
01:25:21,710 --> 01:25:18,900
character said the people have a right

2065
01:25:23,780 --> 01:25:21,720
to know this affects them and the

2066
01:25:24,620 --> 01:25:23,790
Franklin bought character said you can't

2067
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:24,630
handle the truth

2068
01:25:29,900 --> 01:25:28,080
yeah both guys were right but what would

2069
01:25:32,510 --> 01:25:29,910
have happened had the series continued

2070
01:25:34,460 --> 01:25:32,520
is the Eric close character the naive

2071
01:25:37,310 --> 01:25:34,470
the people have a right to know guy

2072
01:25:40,100 --> 01:25:37,320
would have eventually become the BOK

2073
01:25:41,870 --> 01:25:40,110
character who said the people can't

2074
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:41,880
handle the truth Wow

2075
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:43,530
which would have been realistic that

2076
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:44,970
would have been almost Hamlet or

2077
01:25:49,280 --> 01:25:46,770
something I'm it have been wonderful

2078
01:25:51,740 --> 01:25:49,290
yeah well Walsh is such a believable

2079
01:25:54,350 --> 01:25:51,750
character I mean such a great actor he

2080
01:25:58,760 --> 01:25:54,360
he is was he died right after dark skies

2081
01:26:01,340 --> 01:25:58,770
he was not an easy man to work with he

2082
01:26:02,870 --> 01:26:01,350
took the job originally because I think

2083
01:26:05,630 --> 01:26:02,880
he liked how much we were gonna pay him

2084
01:26:08,750 --> 01:26:05,640
and he he realized he'd get paid that

2085
01:26:11,930 --> 01:26:08,760
fee that episodic fee all the time and

2086
01:26:14,240 --> 01:26:11,940
so he would show you know so he he took

2087
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:14,250
the gig and then he got angry because I

2088
01:26:18,050 --> 01:26:16,320
think he didn't realize in TV that you

2089
01:26:20,600 --> 01:26:18,060
had to show up every day at you know

2090
01:26:24,110 --> 01:26:20,610
6:00 in the morning ready to go and it

2091
01:26:26,990 --> 01:26:24,120
was almost every day and um he he got so

2092
01:26:29,030 --> 01:26:27,000
personally abusive to me because I think

2093
01:26:31,010 --> 01:26:29,040
he saw me as the you know the leader and

2094
01:26:33,620 --> 01:26:31,020
he just was very personally abusive he

2095
01:26:35,960 --> 01:26:33,630
said abusive things to my son who was

2096
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:35,970
just don't know at the time in front of

2097
01:26:39,830 --> 01:26:38,250
me his father and I I just was like you

2098
01:26:41,510 --> 01:26:39,840
know that this guy is not a nice man he

2099
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:41,520
shouldn't be this way and what was

2100
01:26:47,240 --> 01:26:45,810
interesting he got worse and worse and I

2101
01:26:50,420 --> 01:26:47,250
couldn't figure out what was going on

2102
01:26:51,530 --> 01:26:50,430
and finally somebody from the crew came

2103
01:26:53,300 --> 01:26:51,540
to me and said well you know what's

2104
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:53,310
going on and I said I really don't I

2105
01:26:56,930 --> 01:26:55,410
mean I he's just a bad guy is that

2106
01:27:00,410 --> 01:26:56,940
what's going on he said no he wants you

2107
01:27:03,050 --> 01:27:00,420
to fire if he quits you don't have to

2108
01:27:04,940 --> 01:27:03,060
pay him but if you if you fire him you

2109
01:27:07,580 --> 01:27:04,950
have to pay him out so the reason he's

2110
01:27:10,460 --> 01:27:07,590
being so mean to you and so horrible is

2111
01:27:13,550 --> 01:27:10,470
he wants you to fire him so literally in

2112
01:27:17,450 --> 01:27:13,560
the last episode we killed him

2113
01:27:21,110 --> 01:27:17,460
right and it'll see what the grip and JT

2114
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:21,120
came into my office and he said I read

2115
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:22,770
that script and I thought my god he's

2116
01:27:27,410 --> 01:27:24,690
gonna hit me you know I I don't know

2117
01:27:30,980 --> 01:27:27,420
what he's gonna do and he says just make

2118
01:27:33,410 --> 01:27:30,990
sure that you put enough bullets in me

2119
01:27:37,850 --> 01:27:33,420
that there's no doubt whatsoever that

2120
01:27:41,510 --> 01:27:37,860
I'm dead and I was sitting behind my

2121
01:27:45,890 --> 01:27:41,520
desk quaking and I said deal we'll do it

2122
01:27:47,510 --> 01:27:45,900
so we did we shot him eight times and

2123
01:27:49,850 --> 01:27:47,520
what the irony of shooting him eight

2124
01:27:51,950 --> 01:27:49,860
times is that we were cancelled at this

2125
01:27:53,690 --> 01:27:51,960
point and the network had said we don't

2126
01:27:56,360 --> 01:27:53,700
care what the hell you guys do you know

2127
01:27:58,670 --> 01:27:56,370
do whatever you want just don't spend

2128
01:28:01,490 --> 01:27:58,680
one dime over your budget

2129
01:28:04,130 --> 01:28:01,500
right so in order to shoot JT Walsh

2130
01:28:06,140 --> 01:28:04,140
successfully to murder him completely

2131
01:28:08,660 --> 01:28:06,150
we needed squibs you know so when he

2132
01:28:10,970 --> 01:28:08,670
gets shot you see the blood spurt and

2133
01:28:14,300 --> 01:28:10,980
all that but that's very expensive so

2134
01:28:17,060 --> 01:28:14,310
instead we had to have the bond oh shoot

2135
01:28:19,550 --> 01:28:17,070
him off camera eight times and instead

2136
01:28:24,140 --> 01:28:19,560
we went for instead of squibs and blood

2137
01:28:26,630 --> 01:28:24,150
we went for just imagery so the last

2138
01:28:28,700 --> 01:28:26,640
thing JT was the best smoker I've ever

2139
01:28:30,530 --> 01:28:28,710
seen the man could smoke a cigarette and

2140
01:28:33,020 --> 01:28:30,540
you could just watch him for ten minutes

2141
01:28:35,180 --> 01:28:33,030
smoking a cigarette so the last image is

2142
01:28:38,330 --> 01:28:35,190
as he gets shot eight times his hand

2143
01:28:40,190 --> 01:28:38,340
falls and the cigarette just trails off

2144
01:28:43,300 --> 01:28:40,200
the smoke and then Falls from his Anne

2145
01:28:44,780 --> 01:28:43,310
and that's how you knew he's dead wow

2146
01:28:48,410 --> 01:28:44,790
that's great

2147
01:28:50,420 --> 01:28:48,420
well hey Matthew so we're gonna say

2148
01:28:51,860 --> 01:28:50,430
goodnight to you but tell people where

2149
01:28:54,200 --> 01:28:51,870
they can get you actually it's in the

2150
01:28:56,930 --> 01:28:54,210
show links where they can get your book

2151
01:28:59,930 --> 01:28:56,940
but is there an easy way to say it where

2152
01:29:01,550 --> 01:28:59,940
people can check it out you can go you

2153
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:01,560
want to get the e-book or if you're

2154
01:29:04,370 --> 01:29:03,090
outside the US and would like to get the

2155
01:29:07,430 --> 01:29:04,380
book you can get it straight from the

2156
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:07,440
publisher offers books co uk if you're

2157
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:09,210
in the US and you want a physical copy

2158
01:29:13,850 --> 01:29:11,760
of the book you can just go out on Lulu

2159
01:29:16,670 --> 01:29:13,860
cuz offers does internationally print on

2160
01:29:18,140 --> 01:29:16,680
demand just type in silver archive dark

2161
01:29:20,990 --> 01:29:18,150
skies you should find it pretty easily

2162
01:29:24,710 --> 01:29:21,000
and I'm also on Twitter you can find me

2163
01:29:26,720 --> 01:29:24,720
at Kressel writes excellent all right

2164
01:29:28,880 --> 01:29:26,730
well thank you so much thank you

2165
01:29:31,940 --> 01:29:28,890
again for that book I appreciate it yeah

2166
01:29:32,780 --> 01:29:31,950
welcome yeah it's been great really nice

2167
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:32,790
talking to you

2168
01:29:36,410 --> 01:29:35,130
Matthew and I like some of the research

2169
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:36,420
you've done it looks like you've really

2170
01:29:40,610 --> 01:29:38,130
looked into things deeply so you do a

2171
01:29:44,840 --> 01:29:40,620
good job I can tell that all right you

2172
01:29:47,950 --> 01:29:44,850
take care all right whoops I just got

2173
01:29:51,020 --> 01:29:47,960
him off one little second there so Bryce

2174
01:29:53,990 --> 01:29:51,030
now we're on together I wanted to shift

2175
01:29:57,140 --> 01:29:54,000
gears are and actually talk about what

2176
01:29:59,960 --> 01:29:57,150
you're up to you we saw the news

2177
01:30:02,000 --> 01:29:59,970
yesterday about what's going on with the

2178
01:30:05,090 --> 01:30:02,010
Betty and Barney Hill thing well let's

2179
01:30:06,500 --> 01:30:05,100
talk about that well I you know the

2180
01:30:08,990 --> 01:30:06,510
Betty and Barney Hill case has been my

2181
01:30:12,620 --> 01:30:09,000
favorite abduction case since I was a

2182
01:30:14,420 --> 01:30:12,630
kid I was always fascinated by it and

2183
01:30:15,830 --> 01:30:14,430
the reason I've always liked it and I'm

2184
01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:15,840
sure the reason you liked it and other

2185
01:30:18,950 --> 01:30:17,490
people liked it in fact I even wrote

2186
01:30:20,870 --> 01:30:18,960
Betty and Barney Hill into the dark

2187
01:30:24,980 --> 01:30:20,880
skies pilot just to continue that

2188
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:24,990
transition but I like it because it's

2189
01:30:29,660 --> 01:30:27,330
all about first they weren't making what

2190
01:30:31,940 --> 01:30:29,670
their story was up based on hearing it

2191
01:30:34,130 --> 01:30:31,950
from someone else they were the first

2192
01:30:36,950 --> 01:30:34,140
Americans to claim publicly they'd been

2193
01:30:39,770 --> 01:30:36,960
abducted they were the first people to

2194
01:30:42,140 --> 01:30:39,780
say that they experienced missing time

2195
01:30:44,450 --> 01:30:42,150
they were the first people to reclaim

2196
01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:44,460
memories through hypnotic regression and

2197
01:30:49,910 --> 01:30:47,010
they were the first people ever to claim

2198
01:30:52,520 --> 01:30:49,920
that they saw the greys and described

2199
01:30:54,920 --> 01:30:52,530
the greys all of that which makes it the

2200
01:30:56,900 --> 01:30:54,930
world's greatest case for me to tell as

2201
01:30:58,550 --> 01:30:56,910
the story and they were in interracial

2202
01:31:01,400 --> 01:30:58,560
couple right

2203
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:01,410
they were Barney was black and Betty was

2204
01:31:04,940 --> 01:31:03,210
white and they were all civil rights

2205
01:31:07,940 --> 01:31:04,950
activists so it's always been a

2206
01:31:10,400 --> 01:31:07,950
fascinating story to me so the news

2207
01:31:13,900 --> 01:31:10,410
yesterday was simply that my company

2208
01:31:16,010 --> 01:31:13,910
stellar Productions has made a

2209
01:31:20,780 --> 01:31:16,020
partnership deal with a company called

2210
01:31:23,990 --> 01:31:20,790
Alta Global to to bring the project to

2211
01:31:25,670 --> 01:31:24,000
the world of series television now I

2212
01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:25,680
don't want to get ahead of myself and I

2213
01:31:30,170 --> 01:31:27,840
don't want people to say oh so when will

2214
01:31:33,620 --> 01:31:30,180
it be on that's not how it works we're

2215
01:31:36,170 --> 01:31:33,630
still plugging away to get it to the

2216
01:31:40,070 --> 01:31:36,180
right people to finance it and put it on

2217
01:31:42,890 --> 01:31:40,080
television but the

2218
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:42,900
alta global is as a company run by an

2219
01:31:48,200 --> 01:31:44,970
african-american man named steve adams

2220
01:31:50,200 --> 01:31:48,210
he's worked with Spike Lee before and he

2221
01:31:53,270 --> 01:31:50,210
shared our vision my wife and I are the

2222
01:31:55,850 --> 01:31:53,280
owners of the option he shared our

2223
01:31:58,490 --> 01:31:55,860
vision to tell a longer story rather

2224
01:32:02,420 --> 01:31:58,500
than a two-hour story but to tell the

2225
01:32:05,330 --> 01:32:02,430
the 10-hour seasonal canvass of a series

2226
01:32:07,310 --> 01:32:05,340
because we wanted to do two things we

2227
01:32:09,830 --> 01:32:07,320
wanted to do a deep dive into the Betty

2228
01:32:12,460 --> 01:32:09,840
and Barney marriage and we wanted to do

2229
01:32:15,140 --> 01:32:12,470
a deep dive into the civil rights

2230
01:32:17,810 --> 01:32:15,150
movement of the times and also how that

2231
01:32:20,630 --> 01:32:17,820
reflected up against the Cold War and so

2232
01:32:25,220 --> 01:32:20,640
forth and we needed more time to do that

2233
01:32:26,990 --> 01:32:25,230
so the news isn't that you know we we've

2234
01:32:29,300 --> 01:32:27,000
had different partners over the years

2235
01:32:31,640 --> 01:32:29,310
trying to bring this together but we're

2236
01:32:33,410 --> 01:32:31,650
always focused on features I think what

2237
01:32:36,950 --> 01:32:33,420
we've said is the the action is in

2238
01:32:39,500 --> 01:32:36,960
television and it's also where as

2239
01:32:41,870 --> 01:32:39,510
writers and producers we want to spend

2240
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:41,880
our time it's also frankly where I have

2241
01:32:45,980 --> 01:32:43,290
a lot of really good credits in

2242
01:32:48,500 --> 01:32:45,990
television so it's probably going to be

2243
01:32:50,630 --> 01:32:48,510
easier to try to set it up and and I

2244
01:32:52,940 --> 01:32:50,640
hope we do because this story has never

2245
01:32:56,060 --> 01:32:52,950
been told well on television I mean

2246
01:32:58,550 --> 01:32:56,070
people remember that in 1975 it was a TV

2247
01:33:00,770 --> 01:32:58,560
movie that starred James Earl Jones a

2248
01:33:03,020 --> 01:33:00,780
great guy but the movies production

2249
01:33:05,780 --> 01:33:03,030
values were nothing and it wasn't that

2250
01:33:08,690 --> 01:33:05,790
it's it's I find it almost unwatchable

2251
01:33:10,070 --> 01:33:08,700
now but if you're talking about special

2252
01:33:11,990 --> 01:33:10,080
effects and all that one of the things

2253
01:33:15,470 --> 01:33:12,000
that we want to do in this series is

2254
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:15,480
allow people to literally see what it

2255
01:33:18,980 --> 01:33:17,130
was like inside that ship we don't want

2256
01:33:20,660 --> 01:33:18,990
to be coy we don't want to shoot it all

2257
01:33:22,580 --> 01:33:20,670
in shadows we want to take their

2258
01:33:25,970 --> 01:33:22,590
testimony about the ship and bring it to

2259
01:33:27,650 --> 01:33:25,980
life with the best special effects and

2260
01:33:30,980 --> 01:33:27,660
visual effects that we can bring to bear

2261
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:30,990
on it I see we have this question that

2262
01:33:36,740 --> 01:33:34,650
came up in the chat room but I'm not

2263
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:36,750
sure if that's someone talking about

2264
01:33:44,090 --> 01:33:39,090
dark skies or about what your project is

2265
01:33:46,130 --> 01:33:44,100
now it can always I know a production is

2266
01:33:48,140 --> 01:33:46,140
a very expensive people well I tell you

2267
01:33:49,790 --> 01:33:48,150
you know it fans are saying well what

2268
01:33:52,240 --> 01:33:49,800
maybe they're talking about if they're

2269
01:33:54,080 --> 01:33:52,250
talking about dark skies

2270
01:33:56,629 --> 01:33:54,090
like when I post

2271
01:33:59,149 --> 01:33:56,639
darhk's guys on my Twitter page like it

2272
01:34:02,000 --> 01:33:59,159
retweet it that helps because I'm trying

2273
01:34:04,250 --> 01:34:02,010
to keep the flame alive and my Twitter

2274
01:34:07,459 --> 01:34:04,260
pages at Hollywood UFOs

2275
01:34:09,589 --> 01:34:07,469
so please please follow and and try to

2276
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:09,599
follow the dark skies stuff that we do

2277
01:34:14,419 --> 01:34:12,449
because when I get myself into an office

2278
01:34:16,310 --> 01:34:14,429
with the Sony people I'd like to be able

2279
01:34:17,660 --> 01:34:16,320
to say look there's a lot of people

2280
01:34:22,070 --> 01:34:17,670
already out there that seem to care

2281
01:34:25,250 --> 01:34:22,080
about this that would be helpful and if

2282
01:34:27,950 --> 01:34:25,260
they're talking about captured you know

2283
01:34:33,229 --> 01:34:27,960
at this point the hard works got to be

2284
01:34:35,149 --> 01:34:33,239
done by me it's nice though again if I

2285
01:34:37,520 --> 01:34:35,159
were to be posting about captured or

2286
01:34:40,669 --> 01:34:37,530
about Betty and Barney for people to

2287
01:34:44,180 --> 01:34:40,679
like and retweet that's sort of the you

2288
01:34:47,570 --> 01:34:44,190
know networks do care what's going on in

2289
01:34:49,669 --> 01:34:47,580
social media just why we said in the

2290
01:34:51,560 --> 01:34:49,679
last however they they they care less

2291
01:34:53,479 --> 01:34:51,570
about it after the show has already been

2292
01:34:55,459 --> 01:34:53,489
cancelled but when everything is like oh

2293
01:34:57,950 --> 01:34:55,469
my god we could have the the hottest new

2294
01:35:00,410 --> 01:34:57,960
series around then they do care if

2295
01:35:02,149 --> 01:35:00,420
there's people that like it Wow so they

2296
01:35:05,060 --> 01:35:02,159
really pay attention to that part of it

2297
01:35:07,729 --> 01:35:05,070
what's thinking dealer or less I think

2298
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:07,739
they do yeah yeah yeah how about that

2299
01:35:14,300 --> 01:35:10,770
so in this getting back to you know

2300
01:35:16,250 --> 01:35:14,310
Betty and Barney Hill yeah I know that

2301
01:35:17,629 --> 01:35:16,260
actually there was an episode in dark

2302
01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:17,639
skies where they were featured for a

2303
01:35:22,910 --> 01:35:21,090
short time that's the pilot I mean come

2304
01:35:27,379 --> 01:35:22,920
on and I tell you something

2305
01:35:31,879 --> 01:35:27,389
that clip is is available on my YouTube

2306
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:31,889
page and and I've never seen Betty and

2307
01:35:36,260 --> 01:35:34,050
Barney portrayed more realistically than

2308
01:35:39,020 --> 01:35:36,270
their I mean that was directed by none

2309
01:35:41,270 --> 01:35:39,030
other than tobe Hooper the script was by

2310
01:35:43,399 --> 01:35:41,280
me and Brent Freedman it's just a single

2311
01:35:46,609 --> 01:35:43,409
scene but it's lone guard at

2312
01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:46,619
Christmastime of 1961 going to see Betty

2313
01:35:53,510 --> 01:35:51,690
and Barney and and they're there he's

2314
01:35:55,220 --> 01:35:53,520
trying to convince you know they're

2315
01:35:56,959 --> 01:35:55,230
saying well Betty says well maybe we

2316
01:35:59,180 --> 01:35:56,969
should do you should really push for a

2317
01:36:03,200 --> 01:35:59,190
congressional investigation and lone

2318
01:36:06,500 --> 01:36:03,210
guard says this is my favorite I just

2319
01:36:08,070 --> 01:36:06,510
love this moment I'm proud of how it was

2320
01:36:10,110 --> 01:36:08,080
filmed I'm proud of what it's

2321
01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:10,120
but Betty says maybe you should do a

2322
01:36:13,890 --> 01:36:12,490
congressional investigation and and lone

2323
01:36:16,620 --> 01:36:13,900
guard gets a little nervous and he goes

2324
01:36:18,330 --> 01:36:16,630
well I you know I I I don't know I mean

2325
01:36:22,650 --> 01:36:18,340
if you did that it be public and people

2326
01:36:24,900 --> 01:36:22,660
might say things and yeah Barney looks

2327
01:36:28,350 --> 01:36:24,910
at him and says mr. lone guard I am a

2328
01:36:31,350 --> 01:36:28,360
black man married to a white woman yeah

2329
01:36:34,350 --> 01:36:31,360
well already say things that's right if

2330
01:36:38,190 --> 01:36:34,360
I can tell my story I will tell it to

2331
01:36:40,380 --> 01:36:38,200
the whole damn world and I still think

2332
01:36:43,110 --> 01:36:40,390
we need courage like that today yeah

2333
01:36:46,650 --> 01:36:43,120
yeah no that would that was a good now

2334
01:36:50,310 --> 01:36:46,660
are you now I did notice that

2335
01:36:53,550 --> 01:36:50,320
Kathleen Mardin of course I bade betty

2336
01:36:55,830 --> 01:36:53,560
hills a nice host it posted your link

2337
01:37:00,180 --> 01:36:55,840
yesterday is she gonna be helping out in

2338
01:37:02,730 --> 01:37:00,190
any in any background on this you know

2339
01:37:05,220 --> 01:37:02,740
she's helped out because she she allowed

2340
01:37:07,980 --> 01:37:05,230
us to option her book and she did a good

2341
01:37:10,890 --> 01:37:07,990
job with the book I have no objection by

2342
01:37:13,260 --> 01:37:10,900
the way I mean it it sort of depends how

2343
01:37:15,450 --> 01:37:13,270
these things you know come to fruition

2344
01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:15,460
but she's a great woman and I'd be happy

2345
01:37:20,580 --> 01:37:17,920
to have her help dealing I will tell you

2346
01:37:22,620 --> 01:37:20,590
a again Doe is see if people should

2347
01:37:24,990 --> 01:37:22,630
never look at an hour drama series as

2348
01:37:26,790 --> 01:37:25,000
the documentary right so you tend to

2349
01:37:29,340 --> 01:37:26,800
whoever you literally option them

2350
01:37:31,500 --> 01:37:29,350
underlying rights to are never a hundred

2351
01:37:34,230 --> 01:37:31,510
percent satisfied because you have to

2352
01:37:36,240 --> 01:37:34,240
adapt it to television you have to take

2353
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:36,250
time events that happened at different

2354
01:37:40,950 --> 01:37:38,770
times and compress them you have to take

2355
01:37:42,870 --> 01:37:40,960
ten different characters and make them

2356
01:37:44,940 --> 01:37:42,880
three different characters right because

2357
01:37:46,860 --> 01:37:44,950
you need you need consolidation in that

2358
01:37:48,960 --> 01:37:46,870
regard and you have to take dramatic

2359
01:37:53,490 --> 01:37:48,970
license because at the end of the day

2360
01:37:56,250 --> 01:37:53,500
you need to have something that pays off

2361
01:37:59,190 --> 01:37:56,260
right I mean people expect just people

2362
01:38:00,900 --> 01:37:59,200
expect that you're you're gonna still

2363
01:38:02,430 --> 01:38:00,910
follow the rules of drama and have a

2364
01:38:05,520 --> 01:38:02,440
payoff and then when you talk about

2365
01:38:06,690 --> 01:38:05,530
Betty and Barney I mean if it's a one

2366
01:38:08,220 --> 01:38:06,700
note thing and you know from the

2367
01:38:09,930 --> 01:38:08,230
beginning that they were just abducted

2368
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:09,940
and that's what happened then where's

2369
01:38:14,400 --> 01:38:11,890
your drama you've got to see people

2370
01:38:16,310 --> 01:38:14,410
resisting that you've got to see you've

2371
01:38:20,160 --> 01:38:16,320
got to see that there are alternative

2372
01:38:21,750 --> 01:38:20,170
theories even at the time you've got to

2373
01:38:25,290 --> 01:38:21,760
work your way through all that

2374
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:25,300
so you know but I've gone to off on the

2375
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:26,530
deep end because your question is about

2376
01:38:32,100 --> 01:38:30,010
Cathy Cathy's a great resource and god

2377
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:32,110
bless her and Stanton Friedman for doing

2378
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:33,610
the work they did to write captured

2379
01:38:40,709 --> 01:38:37,570
because it forms the basis of our

2380
01:38:42,750 --> 01:38:40,719
underlying rights for the series for

2381
01:38:46,529 --> 01:38:42,760
example the interrupted journey the book

2382
01:38:49,140 --> 01:38:46,539
that was written in 1965 while a great

2383
01:38:51,779 --> 01:38:49,150
read at the time you know has not been

2384
01:38:54,359 --> 01:38:51,789
brought up to date by anybody Betty

2385
01:38:57,270 --> 01:38:54,369
Betty and Barney story is best told

2386
01:38:59,459 --> 01:38:57,280
currently through the the captured book

2387
01:39:01,799 --> 01:38:59,469
that I have under option because as you

2388
01:39:03,930 --> 01:39:01,809
mentioned it's written by you know the

2389
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:03,940
Dean of ufology Stanton Friedman who

2390
01:39:09,060 --> 01:39:05,730
passed away a couple of years ago and

2391
01:39:11,970 --> 01:39:09,070
it's also written by Betty's niece so

2392
01:39:14,279 --> 01:39:11,980
you've got the new parts of ufology and

2393
01:39:16,220 --> 01:39:14,289
then you also have the insider looked at

2394
01:39:20,339 --> 01:39:16,230
their marriage and their their lives

2395
01:39:22,140 --> 01:39:20,349
right right you know you're you're

2396
01:39:25,080 --> 01:39:22,150
discussing how these things have to be

2397
01:39:29,310 --> 01:39:25,090
put together in order to sell in order

2398
01:39:30,899 --> 01:39:29,320
to make something more than they are and

2399
01:39:34,020 --> 01:39:30,909
along those lines a lot of people were

2400
01:39:35,910 --> 01:39:34,030
complaining about because I get a lot of

2401
01:39:37,589 --> 01:39:35,920
email from listeners and a lot of people

2402
01:39:40,740 --> 01:39:37,599
are really complaining about Project

2403
01:39:42,509 --> 01:39:40,750
Blue Book be the series because they

2404
01:39:47,189 --> 01:39:42,519
thought they went too far off the rails

2405
01:39:48,180 --> 01:39:47,199
and you know but they also had to sell

2406
01:39:50,009 --> 01:39:48,190
right I mean they were under the

2407
01:39:51,870 --> 01:39:50,019
pressure I mean these things are

2408
01:39:54,899 --> 01:39:51,880
fantastic the things that happened are

2409
01:39:57,979 --> 01:39:54,909
fantastic anyway but but evidently not

2410
01:40:01,770 --> 01:39:57,989
enough tonight to be surprised if I

2411
01:40:05,250 --> 01:40:01,780
would be surprised if the producers of

2412
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:05,260
Blue Book you know went is fine however

2413
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:07,690
you described it off the rails or you

2414
01:40:14,910 --> 01:40:11,010
know whatever if they did that to

2415
01:40:17,129 --> 01:40:14,920
because they they were told to do it I

2416
01:40:19,229 --> 01:40:17,139
mean I think that they they went through

2417
01:40:20,580 --> 01:40:19,239
their own creative process and said yeah

2418
01:40:24,899 --> 01:40:20,590
people aren't going to really care about

2419
01:40:27,419 --> 01:40:24,909
the details now that's a little harder

2420
01:40:30,180 --> 01:40:27,429
because Blue Book is literally trying to

2421
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:30,190
was trying to say these are actual Case

2422
01:40:35,670 --> 01:40:34,449
Files and when you literally blow apart

2423
01:40:37,680 --> 01:40:35,680
the case files

2424
01:40:40,650 --> 01:40:37,690
then what do you have left that's a good

2425
01:40:42,780 --> 01:40:40,660
question with dark skies I think people

2426
01:40:45,210 --> 01:40:42,790
kind of understood that we were taking

2427
01:40:47,670 --> 01:40:45,220
real-life events and you Falah djegal

2428
01:40:51,420 --> 01:40:47,680
events and weaving them together and it

2429
01:40:53,370 --> 01:40:51,430
was some kind of thrill ride through

2430
01:40:55,310 --> 01:40:53,380
history if you will and I don't think

2431
01:40:57,960 --> 01:40:55,320
that they even though we tried to be

2432
01:41:00,060 --> 01:40:57,970
extremely respectful of certain you

2433
01:41:02,360 --> 01:41:00,070
Falah djegal events because it served

2434
01:41:05,310 --> 01:41:02,370
our purposes we weren't worried about

2435
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:05,320
you know about it that much but when you

2436
01:41:09,150 --> 01:41:06,970
do when they did Blue Book they were

2437
01:41:10,950 --> 01:41:09,160
basically promoting it whether the

2438
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:10,960
producers intended this or not

2439
01:41:15,930 --> 01:41:13,090
History Channel was certainly proposing

2440
01:41:17,880 --> 01:41:15,940
it as a you know we're gonna rip the

2441
01:41:20,010 --> 01:41:17,890
cover off these true stories it's all

2442
01:41:22,170 --> 01:41:20,020
true and so blue book for example did a

2443
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:22,180
Betty and Barney episode that bored

2444
01:41:27,030 --> 01:41:24,730
absolutely zero resemblance to the Betty

2445
01:41:29,490 --> 01:41:27,040
and Barney Hill case in fact both of the

2446
01:41:32,220 --> 01:41:29,500
characters in that case in that episode

2447
01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:32,230
were black the case that they described

2448
01:41:36,840 --> 01:41:34,090
is not what happened to them and it all

2449
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:36,850
took place in one location you know and

2450
01:41:40,380 --> 01:41:38,650
Barney ended up with a gun hunting

2451
01:41:43,260 --> 01:41:40,390
somebody or what I mean it was just not

2452
01:41:44,970 --> 01:41:43,270
I I don't mind that as a story if they

2453
01:41:48,180 --> 01:41:44,980
thought that was a great story I just

2454
01:41:49,500 --> 01:41:48,190
wasn't quite sure why they called it the

2455
01:41:52,230 --> 01:41:49,510
story of Betty and Barney Hill because

2456
01:41:53,310 --> 01:41:52,240
it wasn't right right so I just put up

2457
01:41:56,040 --> 01:41:53,320
on the screen

2458
01:41:57,960 --> 01:41:56,050
Matthewson chat who was our former guest

2459
01:42:00,060 --> 01:41:57,970
and his Twitter feed is up there on the

2460
01:42:03,060 --> 01:42:00,070
screen right now if anyone wants to get

2461
01:42:06,060 --> 01:42:03,070
ahold of him so Bryce uh let's also

2462
01:42:09,660 --> 01:42:06,070
let's talk about you were busy yesterday

2463
01:42:12,270 --> 01:42:09,670
so you had you had a I want to call it a

2464
01:42:14,010 --> 01:42:12,280
blog but maybe it's an article we can

2465
01:42:18,270 --> 01:42:14,020
handle the truth can you talk about that

2466
01:42:20,730 --> 01:42:18,280
yeah um I I've been on Twitter for the

2467
01:42:24,750 --> 01:42:20,740
last year and a half or so in a more

2468
01:42:26,460 --> 01:42:24,760
active way at Hollywood UFOs talking

2469
01:42:28,800 --> 01:42:26,470
about the disclosure issues because in

2470
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:28,810
addition to the drama dramatic part that

2471
01:42:32,970 --> 01:42:31,090
I like I also happen to believe it's a

2472
01:42:34,740 --> 01:42:32,980
you know the biggest story of my

2473
01:42:36,900 --> 01:42:34,750
lifetime and that I would like to see

2474
01:42:39,540 --> 01:42:36,910
some resolution to well I still have a

2475
01:42:42,300 --> 01:42:39,550
life and I and that's in doubt because

2476
01:42:44,220 --> 01:42:42,310
we've gone 73 years and haven't resolved

2477
01:42:47,670 --> 01:42:44,230
it so I'd like them to get on with it

2478
01:42:48,990 --> 01:42:47,680
and on Twitter there's a another

2479
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:49,000
gentleman who

2480
01:42:54,150 --> 01:42:51,610
has quite a youtube persona he's UFO

2481
01:42:58,710 --> 01:42:54,160
Jesus but his real name is Ryan Robbins

2482
01:43:01,350 --> 01:42:58,720
and Ryan at his at post disclosure on

2483
01:43:03,470 --> 01:43:01,360
Twitter has just some really trenchant

2484
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:03,480
observations if you will about

2485
01:43:08,550 --> 01:43:06,250
disclosure so I reached out to Ryan cuz

2486
01:43:10,770 --> 01:43:08,560
I I believe in collaborating I like it I

2487
01:43:13,260 --> 01:43:10,780
think it makes for a better product

2488
01:43:15,090 --> 01:43:13,270
quite often yeah so I reached out to him

2489
01:43:17,250 --> 01:43:15,100
and said why don't we write an essay

2490
01:43:19,470 --> 01:43:17,260
because we had both tweeted in the same

2491
01:43:22,140 --> 01:43:19,480
day roughly the same concept which is

2492
01:43:23,910 --> 01:43:22,150
well everybody thinks disclosure can't

2493
01:43:26,430 --> 01:43:23,920
happen because we've got a pandemic

2494
01:43:28,680 --> 01:43:26,440
going on and we've got people protesting

2495
01:43:30,810 --> 01:43:28,690
in the streets right so we had both

2496
01:43:31,290 --> 01:43:30,820
tweeted saying that's the perfect time

2497
01:43:33,510 --> 01:43:31,300
to do it

2498
01:43:36,120 --> 01:43:33,520
right because we're people are already

2499
01:43:38,220 --> 01:43:36,130
in the streets people are already you

2500
01:43:41,340 --> 01:43:38,230
know scared staying at home people are

2501
01:43:43,830 --> 01:43:41,350
already you know the political situation

2502
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:43,840
is already unstable and chaotic right so

2503
01:43:50,220 --> 01:43:47,050
throw in aliens who cares bring it on so

2504
01:43:51,660 --> 01:43:50,230
we we sort of kicked that back we said

2505
01:43:53,490 --> 01:43:51,670
well we're both thinking the same way

2506
01:43:56,610 --> 01:43:53,500
maybe we should you know write about it

2507
01:43:59,040 --> 01:43:56,620
so we ended up writing a medium article

2508
01:44:01,230 --> 01:43:59,050
about it and I don't know if you have

2509
01:44:02,730 --> 01:44:01,240
the link to that or not if you do it

2510
01:44:04,950 --> 01:44:02,740
it'd be great to post it someplace

2511
01:44:07,290 --> 01:44:04,960
because I don't have it on my memory

2512
01:44:11,000 --> 01:44:07,300
right now but I'm meeting we wrote an

2513
01:44:14,580 --> 01:44:11,010
article called we can handle the truth

2514
01:44:18,240 --> 01:44:14,590
why now is the perfect time to end the

2515
01:44:21,330 --> 01:44:18,250
UFO cover-up and we made a rather

2516
01:44:24,840 --> 01:44:21,340
lengthy attempt to explain why we felt

2517
01:44:27,540 --> 01:44:24,850
that way we probably wrote the longest

2518
01:44:28,950 --> 01:44:27,550
article that ever been written on medium

2519
01:44:31,860 --> 01:44:28,960
maybe we should have called their

2520
01:44:34,950 --> 01:44:31,870
company our article larger or something

2521
01:44:36,600 --> 01:44:34,960
because we went crazy we wrote this it's

2522
01:44:39,450 --> 01:44:36,610
a twenty seven minute read that's how

2523
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:39,460
they measure and and we just really

2524
01:44:44,580 --> 01:44:42,010
wanted to make the argument that things

2525
01:44:47,760 --> 01:44:44,590
are in motion right now and more

2526
01:44:50,220 --> 01:44:47,770
cover-up and more delay is not the

2527
01:44:52,080 --> 01:44:50,230
wisest way to go that whatever the truth

2528
01:44:54,060 --> 01:44:52,090
is and again nobody's whispered in my

2529
01:44:55,860 --> 01:44:54,070
ear and said by the way here's what the

2530
01:44:57,570 --> 01:44:55,870
actual truth is Bryce that's why you

2531
01:44:59,280 --> 01:44:57,580
don't want to tell anybody well actually

2532
01:45:01,080 --> 01:44:59,290
they have done that I guess on dark

2533
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:01,090
skies we did get met by people but this

2534
01:45:10,020 --> 01:45:07,920
is that what the is that what the URL is

2535
01:45:14,550 --> 01:45:10,030
a gel awareness which I don't think

2536
01:45:19,950 --> 01:45:14,560
that's it no that's not it you know I'm

2537
01:45:22,770 --> 01:45:19,960
so sorry I do not go to that I did too

2538
01:45:25,410 --> 01:45:22,780
quickly he sorry my god I actually have

2539
01:45:26,850 --> 01:45:25,420
it and I can give you well it's actually

2540
01:45:28,830 --> 01:45:26,860
in the show notes anyone that's

2541
01:45:30,780 --> 01:45:28,840
listening this check out the show notes

2542
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:30,790
I don't know why it came up that way I'm

2543
01:45:35,340 --> 01:45:34,090
sorry now yeah one out there but I'll

2544
01:45:37,530 --> 01:45:35,350
tell you what it is I'll tell you right

2545
01:45:39,500 --> 01:45:37,540
now yeah right in front of me and I'm

2546
01:45:50,820 --> 01:45:39,510
gonna read it to you

2547
01:45:58,130 --> 01:45:50,830
the URL is bit bi t dot ly /uf o 20/20

2548
01:46:01,980 --> 01:45:58,140
friends so bit ly /u fo 20/20 friends

2549
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:01,990
yeah okay that's alright alright

2550
01:46:09,060 --> 01:46:04,930
the only it's a I'd love people to see

2551
01:46:11,280 --> 01:46:09,070
it and and to comment or applaud it or

2552
01:46:13,710 --> 01:46:11,290
whatever they need to do to recognize it

2553
01:46:15,830 --> 01:46:13,720
because the more recognition this gets I

2554
01:46:18,780 --> 01:46:15,840
think we are entering into a phase where

2555
01:46:22,050 --> 01:46:18,790
it's very clear this secret didn't keep

2556
01:46:24,120 --> 01:46:22,060
itself for 73 years right it obviously

2557
01:46:26,700 --> 01:46:24,130
there have been people forget my

2558
01:46:28,440 --> 01:46:26,710
dramatic chops and trying to tell a

2559
01:46:31,710 --> 01:46:28,450
story in dark skies and others and

2560
01:46:35,010 --> 01:46:31,720
captured and so forth but just from a

2561
01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:35,020
sheer looking at what's going on you

2562
01:46:37,770 --> 01:46:36,970
know that somebody has known more than

2563
01:46:41,370 --> 01:46:37,780
you and me

2564
01:46:43,800 --> 01:46:41,380
Martin somebody out there knows more

2565
01:46:47,700 --> 01:46:43,810
they've got better videos and better

2566
01:46:49,380 --> 01:46:47,710
pictures and better insight and it's

2567
01:46:51,660 --> 01:46:49,390
we're getting roughly to the point where

2568
01:46:53,400 --> 01:46:51,670
we need to lay our cards down now we

2569
01:46:55,070 --> 01:46:53,410
don't have to tell the public everything

2570
01:46:57,240 --> 01:46:55,080
people still do understand

2571
01:46:59,130 --> 01:46:57,250
classification procedures and all that

2572
01:47:02,190 --> 01:46:59,140
but to say that we're seventy three

2573
01:47:05,070 --> 01:47:02,200
years after Kenneth Arnold seventy three

2574
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:05,080
years after Roswell and we still cannot

2575
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:06,730
look people in the eye and say and by

2576
01:47:15,480 --> 01:47:09,850
the way we're not alone and and by the

2577
01:47:16,660 --> 01:47:15,490
by the way they're not out there in in

2578
01:47:18,970 --> 01:47:16,670
some

2579
01:47:21,040 --> 01:47:18,980
the hundreds of light-years away and we

2580
01:47:23,290 --> 01:47:21,050
have to reach him by radio signals no

2581
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:23,300
they're here on earth right now right

2582
01:47:30,040 --> 01:47:27,650
this is a pretty big story and and Ryan

2583
01:47:34,320 --> 01:47:30,050
and I just believed that anything we

2584
01:47:37,419 --> 01:47:34,330
could do to encourage people to actually

2585
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:37,429
push forward with their representatives

2586
01:47:41,500 --> 01:47:39,410
and talk about it is a good thing and

2587
01:47:46,630 --> 01:47:41,510
and just to finish that thought we are

2588
01:47:49,030 --> 01:47:46,640
closer now to a way in to forcing this

2589
01:47:51,280 --> 01:47:49,040
which is once the Navy put out those

2590
01:47:53,050 --> 01:47:51,290
three videos and then the Department of

2591
01:47:55,120 --> 01:47:53,060
Defense said by the way those are real

2592
01:47:57,610 --> 01:47:55,130
and we don't know what they are they're

2593
01:47:59,500 --> 01:47:57,620
basically saying these things can run

2594
01:48:01,540 --> 01:47:59,510
circles around us and they're not ours

2595
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:01,550
and we doubt that they belong to the

2596
01:48:04,959 --> 01:48:03,410
Chinese or the Russians because if they

2597
01:48:07,300 --> 01:48:04,969
Adam they'd have already attacked this

2598
01:48:09,850 --> 01:48:07,310
right so they must belong to somebody

2599
01:48:13,240 --> 01:48:09,860
else you know that's pretty much an

2600
01:48:17,380 --> 01:48:13,250
admission of of we are not alone

2601
01:48:20,470 --> 01:48:17,390
so I let's get on with it yeah - it's -

2602
01:48:23,470 --> 01:48:20,480
the ultimate yeah so we have a question

2603
01:48:25,660 --> 01:48:23,480
up there this is going back I want to I

2604
01:48:27,220 --> 01:48:25,670
want to finish this conversation but the

2605
01:48:29,229 --> 01:48:27,230
question is do you have anyone in mind

2606
01:48:31,209 --> 01:48:29,239
that takes a while before you actually

2607
01:48:33,550 --> 01:48:31,219
choose a character right I mean an outer

2608
01:48:36,910 --> 01:48:33,560
accurate well I mean there's so many

2609
01:48:39,580 --> 01:48:36,920
ways things get cast quite often the

2610
01:48:42,550 --> 01:48:39,590
filmmaker or the director will have the

2611
01:48:46,840 --> 01:48:42,560
ultimate push but also let's say that

2612
01:48:48,760 --> 01:48:46,850
we're we we set it up at Netflix or we

2613
01:48:50,500 --> 01:48:48,770
set it up at CBS right those are two

2614
01:48:52,030 --> 01:48:50,510
different buyers they may be in

2615
01:48:55,540 --> 01:48:52,040
different businesses with different

2616
01:48:58,419 --> 01:48:55,550
actors or different actors maybe so that

2617
01:49:00,939 --> 01:48:58,429
you want get so hot because a movie just

2618
01:49:04,180 --> 01:49:00,949
happens that they're you can't get them

2619
01:49:06,430 --> 01:49:04,190
or vice versa so you you tend not to

2620
01:49:10,120 --> 01:49:06,440
make the casting decisions until there's

2621
01:49:12,970 --> 01:49:10,130
a script and there's an offer I mean if

2622
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:12,980
you try to get actors attached it's very

2623
01:49:18,040 --> 01:49:16,010
hard before you're ready to shoot

2624
01:49:20,410 --> 01:49:18,050
because their agents are trained to say

2625
01:49:22,270 --> 01:49:20,420
make me an offer man you know you make

2626
01:49:27,270 --> 01:49:22,280
an offer all I'll tell you if my guys

2627
01:49:30,250 --> 01:49:27,280
available yeah and so do I have personal

2628
01:49:30,520 --> 01:49:30,260
you know choices that I would make if it

2629
01:49:32,950 --> 01:49:30,530
was

2630
01:49:35,950 --> 01:49:32,960
to me sure does does my wife have

2631
01:49:38,170 --> 01:49:35,960
different choices maybe to Steve Adam we

2632
01:49:40,510 --> 01:49:38,180
were working with have a whole different

2633
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:40,520
list of people could be and will the

2634
01:49:45,450 --> 01:49:43,010
director who we ultimately hire to shoot

2635
01:49:49,450 --> 01:49:45,460
the pilot of his or her own ideas

2636
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:49,460
absolutely so it you know we are a ways

2637
01:49:54,040 --> 01:49:51,890
away from that but the only thing I can

2638
01:49:56,260 --> 01:49:54,050
say is I know people are like well shoot

2639
01:49:58,950 --> 01:49:56,270
when's it's gonna have well once things

2640
01:50:02,410 --> 01:49:58,960
start to happen they happen fast

2641
01:50:06,790 --> 01:50:02,420
it takes for it's Hollywood

2642
01:50:09,700 --> 01:50:06,800
whether it's TV or film it's like well

2643
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:09,710
when is this going to and then boom

2644
01:50:15,100 --> 01:50:13,370
you're in you're going so you know I

2645
01:50:17,380 --> 01:50:15,110
think Hollywood wants to get back to

2646
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:17,390
business the reason that this story

2647
01:50:22,330 --> 01:50:19,010
broke in the trade yesterday is that

2648
01:50:22,570 --> 01:50:22,340
first it does reflect the times we live

2649
01:50:31,480 --> 01:50:22,580
in

2650
01:50:35,140 --> 01:50:31,490
that that's probably why people wanted

2651
01:50:37,000 --> 01:50:35,150
to talk about it and so I think that it

2652
01:50:39,310 --> 01:50:37,010
bodes well for the project picking up

2653
01:50:41,770 --> 01:50:39,320
some steam in traction and getting made

2654
01:50:44,380 --> 01:50:41,780
and then but that I'll have to come back

2655
01:50:46,090 --> 01:50:44,390
on and tell you is you know I'll try to

2656
01:50:46,480 --> 01:50:46,100
bring the actor on your show at that

2657
01:50:48,310 --> 01:50:46,490
point

2658
01:50:51,970 --> 01:50:48,320
oh wow that'd be wonderful yeah all

2659
01:50:54,520 --> 01:50:51,980
right this is from the other chat do you

2660
01:50:59,080 --> 01:50:54,530
plan on using actual recordings drawings

2661
01:51:01,360 --> 01:50:59,090
at some point in the production I have

2662
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:01,370
plenty written a feature film about this

2663
01:51:04,060 --> 01:51:02,810
but I'm kind of putting that in the

2664
01:51:07,420 --> 01:51:04,070
Shelf because I want to do the

2665
01:51:09,670 --> 01:51:07,430
television series but in the feature in

2666
01:51:12,310 --> 01:51:09,680
the script that I wrote I I literally

2667
01:51:14,560 --> 01:51:12,320
did lift quotes from the hypnotic

2668
01:51:16,750 --> 01:51:14,570
sessions we would not be using the

2669
01:51:19,480 --> 01:51:16,760
actual tapes of their voices because I

2670
01:51:22,150 --> 01:51:19,490
said it's not a diary and to the extent

2671
01:51:26,260 --> 01:51:22,160
that we are a dramatic series or film

2672
01:51:30,100 --> 01:51:26,270
the actors will be portraying those

2673
01:51:33,220 --> 01:51:30,110
moments in the hypnotic sessions so but

2674
01:51:36,130 --> 01:51:33,230
I think my goal is while I may take more

2675
01:51:37,840 --> 01:51:36,140
dramatic license in sort of the the

2676
01:51:39,880 --> 01:51:37,850
marriage scenes between Betty and Barney

2677
01:51:41,740 --> 01:51:39,890
because let's face it nobody was really

2678
01:51:42,510 --> 01:51:41,750
there when they were alone so you have

2679
01:51:44,340 --> 01:51:42,520
to make that

2680
01:51:45,630 --> 01:51:44,350
you know you have to you have to think

2681
01:51:48,450 --> 01:51:45,640
about what they might be thinking to

2682
01:51:49,650 --> 01:51:48,460
each other and make that up but what we

2683
01:51:51,480 --> 01:51:49,660
do have on the record

2684
01:51:53,250 --> 01:51:51,490
are those hypnotic sessions and what

2685
01:51:53,670 --> 01:51:53,260
they said publicly about what happened

2686
01:51:55,320 --> 01:51:53,680
to them

2687
01:51:58,350 --> 01:51:55,330
so I'm trying to be true to that I think

2688
01:52:01,830 --> 01:51:58,360
we want to be as true as possible to

2689
01:52:06,390 --> 01:52:01,840
that and so I think that's how that goes

2690
01:52:08,430 --> 01:52:06,400
I had two weeks ago I had a I guess I

2691
01:52:11,790 --> 01:52:08,440
would call him a UFO skeptic to be kind

2692
01:52:12,960 --> 01:52:11,800
yeah and he said you know we were

2693
01:52:15,390 --> 01:52:12,970
talking about the Betty and Barney Hill

2694
01:52:17,520 --> 01:52:15,400
case I said hey well what about that one

2695
01:52:20,310 --> 01:52:17,530
that's the solid one and he said well

2696
01:52:23,670 --> 01:52:20,320
yeah it just happens three weeks or so

2697
01:52:26,100 --> 01:52:23,680
before Betty and Barney's sighting there

2698
01:52:28,860 --> 01:52:26,110
was an outer limits or something that

2699
01:52:31,680 --> 01:52:28,870
had aliens with wraparound eyes so there

2700
01:52:34,950 --> 01:52:31,690
you go you know what yeah I have to say

2701
01:52:36,720 --> 01:52:34,960
I have so many responses to that but the

2702
01:52:39,090 --> 01:52:36,730
first one is all right so basically

2703
01:52:40,980 --> 01:52:39,100
you're saying it's a binary choice Betty

2704
01:52:44,250 --> 01:52:40,990
and Barney either had this happen to

2705
01:52:47,100 --> 01:52:44,260
them or their big fat liars yeah who

2706
01:52:48,990 --> 01:52:47,110
told this story because they saw and out

2707
01:52:50,880 --> 01:52:49,000
of limits I mean most people that knew

2708
01:52:53,250 --> 01:52:50,890
them would say that's not the case that

2709
01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:53,260
they and you know I guess there's not

2710
01:52:56,790 --> 01:52:54,850
even how would we know whether they saw

2711
01:52:58,890 --> 01:52:56,800
it or not and was it the same and would

2712
01:53:01,110 --> 01:52:58,900
it lead them to tell this crazy story

2713
01:53:03,720 --> 01:53:01,120
maybe not but I'll tell you certain

2714
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:03,730
things that I've discovered that that I

2715
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:08,290
think are valid things to put in before

2716
01:53:16,290 --> 01:53:14,170
us and here's just to just to they and

2717
01:53:18,570 --> 01:53:16,300
we can I just interrupt you for just

2718
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:18,580
quick I'm sorry to say this but I'm

2719
01:53:22,440 --> 01:53:20,320
gonna have to close out the show but I'm

2720
01:53:25,050 --> 01:53:22,450
going to have you hang on and we'll

2721
01:53:28,410 --> 01:53:25,060
continue for the podcast and for YouTube

2722
01:53:30,540 --> 01:53:28,420
so for everyone over at kgr a radio

2723
01:53:32,460 --> 01:53:30,550
thank you very much for listening and

2724
01:53:34,410 --> 01:53:32,470
we'll be back the next week I'm going to

2725
01:53:36,420 --> 01:53:34,420
say this for everybody with Ken

2726
01:53:38,640 --> 01:53:36,430
Fortenberry he's going to be talking

2727
01:53:42,000 --> 01:53:38,650
about unexplained mysteries in aviation

2728
01:53:43,920 --> 01:53:42,010
so goodbye over there at kgr a radio and

2729
01:53:47,670 --> 01:53:43,930
talk to you next week so let's continue

2730
01:53:49,650 --> 01:53:47,680
the conversation sure two things that

2731
01:53:52,590 --> 01:53:49,660
people probably don't know about the

2732
01:53:54,660 --> 01:53:52,600
Betty and Barney case is that a Betty

2733
01:53:56,069 --> 01:53:54,670
and Barney lived right next to Pease Air

2734
01:53:58,799 --> 01:53:56,079
Force Base which was

2735
01:54:02,729 --> 01:53:58,809
Portsmouth New Hampshire and at the time

2736
01:54:06,720 --> 01:54:02,739
in 1961 Portsmouth was the piece air

2737
01:54:10,290 --> 01:54:06,730
force base P EAS SSE Pease Air Force

2738
01:54:13,589 --> 01:54:10,300
Base was the only active nuclear bomber

2739
01:54:14,700 --> 01:54:13,599
base in America it was I just got to

2740
01:54:17,010 --> 01:54:14,710
tell you Bryce because you didn't know

2741
01:54:19,290 --> 01:54:17,020
this yeah but I lived across the river

2742
01:54:21,510 --> 01:54:19,300
up in Elliott Maine which was border

2743
01:54:23,520 --> 01:54:21,520
border I lived across the river and I

2744
01:54:27,330 --> 01:54:23,530
used to sit in my front yard I was up on

2745
01:54:28,890 --> 01:54:27,340
a hill and I could watch the planes land

2746
01:54:29,520 --> 01:54:28,900
and take off that's what I used to do

2747
01:54:31,319 --> 01:54:29,530
all the time

2748
01:54:34,589 --> 01:54:31,329
that's a scene from the movie and that

2749
01:54:36,660 --> 01:54:34,599
would be in the TV series it you know it

2750
01:54:39,540 --> 01:54:36,670
was the tip of America's spear and you

2751
01:54:42,299 --> 01:54:39,550
were watching those those planes take

2752
01:54:45,060 --> 01:54:42,309
off and go to failsafe him back Wow why

2753
01:54:46,740 --> 01:54:45,070
the I - hmm that's why they are in New

2754
01:54:49,109 --> 01:54:46,750
Hampshire because they were close enough

2755
01:54:52,879 --> 01:54:49,119
to get to the Soviet Union and back with

2756
01:54:56,220 --> 01:54:52,889
a refuel and what was the previous

2757
01:54:58,979 --> 01:54:56,230
nuclear bomber base of America Roswell

2758
01:55:01,319 --> 01:54:58,989
when they shut Roswell down in the 50s

2759
01:55:03,120 --> 01:55:01,329
they moved those operations to Pease Air

2760
01:55:06,030 --> 01:55:03,130
Force Base so what does that connection

2761
01:55:07,649 --> 01:55:06,040
mean I have ideas I'm not going to put

2762
01:55:10,020 --> 01:55:07,659
them on your show right now another

2763
01:55:12,390 --> 01:55:10,030
thing that nobody ever seemed to pay

2764
01:55:13,500 --> 01:55:12,400
attention to is Betty and Barney on the

2765
01:55:15,720 --> 01:55:13,510
night that they were affected were

2766
01:55:17,700 --> 01:55:15,730
coming back from Montreal where they

2767
01:55:21,899 --> 01:55:17,710
were having a delayed honeymoon

2768
01:55:23,879 --> 01:55:21,909
what was Montreal known for most people

2769
01:55:26,490 --> 01:55:23,889
what might say French food or something

2770
01:55:29,669 --> 01:55:26,500
but the truth of the matter is Montreal

2771
01:55:32,220 --> 01:55:29,679
was where the CIA headquartered its

2772
01:55:34,200 --> 01:55:32,230
MKULTRA operations they didn't want them

2773
01:55:37,049 --> 01:55:34,210
in the United States they had a whole

2774
01:55:39,450 --> 01:55:37,059
over the border into Canada operation

2775
01:55:40,979 --> 01:55:39,460
located in Montreal now I'm not saying

2776
01:55:43,049 --> 01:55:40,989
that explains Betty and Barney either

2777
01:55:45,209 --> 01:55:43,059
I'm just saying the further you dig into

2778
01:55:48,209 --> 01:55:45,219
anything the more you start to see wow

2779
01:55:50,370 --> 01:55:48,219
that's an interesting coincidence or

2780
01:55:52,169 --> 01:55:50,380
does that mean anything and I know that

2781
01:55:54,240 --> 01:55:52,179
when we did dark skies one of the things

2782
01:55:56,850 --> 01:55:54,250
we we're constantly doing is trying to

2783
01:55:58,799 --> 01:55:56,860
find those little moments and saying how

2784
01:56:00,569 --> 01:55:58,809
can we spend that and I'm going to be

2785
01:56:03,270 --> 01:56:00,579
doing a little bit of that obviously in

2786
01:56:05,669 --> 01:56:03,280
the Betty and Barney Hill story yeah

2787
01:56:08,520 --> 01:56:05,679
well you have a wonderful creative mind

2788
01:56:09,450 --> 01:56:08,530
and I always loved having you on the

2789
01:56:12,480 --> 01:56:09,460
show that I think that

2790
01:56:13,980 --> 01:56:12,490
let's see first of all we met out in I'm

2791
01:56:17,520 --> 01:56:13,990
trying to remember where we met

2792
01:56:20,640 --> 01:56:17,530
oh yes and he was acquainted yeah we

2793
01:56:22,550 --> 01:56:20,650
were at the Phoenix of our friend mutual

2794
01:56:27,480 --> 01:56:22,560
friend Alejandro Rojas that's right

2795
01:56:29,460 --> 01:56:27,490
Eustis out in in Phoenix at the UFO see

2796
01:56:33,030 --> 01:56:29,470
is that what it's called the I UFO see

2797
01:56:35,670 --> 01:56:33,040
account yeah International yes yeah and

2798
01:56:38,700 --> 01:56:35,680
I I've spoken there twice and each one's

2799
01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:38,710
been so much fun yeah no it was good

2800
01:56:43,950 --> 01:56:42,490
that was really a lot of fun and um so

2801
01:56:45,900 --> 01:56:43,960
in fact we've known each other too long

2802
01:56:48,000 --> 01:56:45,910
Martin because I'm gonna start repeating

2803
01:56:50,010 --> 01:56:48,010
myself pretty soon and you're on your

2804
01:56:52,830 --> 01:56:50,020
listeners are gonna don't have him on

2805
01:56:54,720 --> 01:56:52,840
again I gotta tell you I I stayed this

2806
01:56:56,880 --> 01:56:54,730
almost every show now I have so many new

2807
01:57:00,300 --> 01:56:56,890
listeners now that are new to the UFO

2808
01:57:02,610 --> 01:57:00,310
topic so they're so I'm really glad that

2809
01:57:04,470 --> 01:57:02,620
you brought up this whole thing that we

2810
01:57:05,970 --> 01:57:04,480
can handle the truth because I think I

2811
01:57:07,860 --> 01:57:05,980
think that there was a lot of really

2812
01:57:10,710 --> 01:57:07,870
good points in that and by the way that

2813
01:57:13,680 --> 01:57:10,720
is in the below and in YouTube that's

2814
01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:13,690
down in the information below the links

2815
01:57:19,140 --> 01:57:15,610
to that and also the notes in the

2816
01:57:21,240 --> 01:57:19,150
podcast okay good yeah Bryce thank you

2817
01:57:23,100 --> 01:57:21,250
so much it's my pleasure ma'am oh it's

2818
01:57:24,570 --> 01:57:23,110
always it's always fun you always ask

2819
01:57:25,050 --> 01:57:24,580
these great questions we have a good

2820
01:57:29,610 --> 01:57:25,060
time

2821
01:57:31,830 --> 01:57:29,620
thank you excellent alright everyone so